French shopkeeper thinks English parenting is terrible

[Turquoiseforever]

Long one sorry, but I've included details to try and give an accurate picture!

Holidaying in France currently and have had a memorable incident in a shop today that has given me some food for thought, just interested in other people's thoughts on this.

Gave my oldest kids (3 & 6) €5 each to buy a souvenir of their choice at our local seaside town. Most shops turned out to be quite bougie and aimed at adults, but saw one which looked hopeful. Had an A-frame sign outside with a plastic colourful beach windmill on it, and a rack of children's clothes. Went in and quickly realised it was again full of very valuable things. At one end was a basket of handmade crocheted teddies, handmaid kids clothing, and some wooden toys. The kids took a look at the teddies, picked one up each then sat in two kids chairs holding them on their laps for a few minutes while I had a quick look round the shelves around them. We had a look at a few other things together, for full disclosure: when we entered my 3yo picked up a very delicate cup which I quickly set down and reminded her not to do. As we were leaving my 6yo very gently pointed out a necklace to me on a very flimsy stand that started to tip over, which I caught before it fell and set upright again. They looked at a few other things without incident or touching.

We didn't spend long, said merci and went on our way. About 10 mins later a lady from the shop approached us in the street and informed me my kids had broken two toys in her shop. We went back with her and found out that the rabbit teddies they had been holding had some very thin toothpick-like sticks of wood in each ear (to shape them a bit) which had been broken by my daughters twisting the ears, pretending to give them a 'hair style'. I had no idea at all they had been broken. Obviously this is my responsibility and error of judgement, and was totally correct to be brought to my attention.

However, the lady also subjected me to a rant about how French children would NEVER pick things up in a shop, they are taught "limits", whereas all summer she has had English, German etc children visiting and breaking things and being given "no limits" by their parents. Complained we had left the place a mess and her husband had to tidy behind us, because the teddies were placed back in the basket but not sat upright as previously displayed (I had set the chairs back carefully but admittedly been distracted from checking the basket).

I pushed back (calmly!) on her generalised critique of my parenting, and she said she has just lost patience after a summer full of similar experiences and essentially admitted this lecture wasn't personal. Still, it was pretty heavy handed to give in public in front of my children and other customers.

To be clear I know I made an error. We had been in a few quite breakable shops already which required heavy parenting, and I guess I saw an opportunity for a quick relief for us all. Normally I would supervise my children looking at anything handmade, so it was a lax moment, but I did think they were just wool and stuffing and wouldn't suffer at all from light playing. Also, typically I wouldn't take my children into these kind of shops. They have never broken anything in a shop before!

I just wonder how humbled I should be. Did I just catch this lady on a really bad day? Was she a bit racist? Are french children really that obedient all the time? Should I strike it off as a bad day and move on without too much thought, or do I take the criticism on board more strongly and accept I should be stricter with things like this and re-evaluate my parenting?! Do we really have much lower standards in the UK?

It's a shame, we've had a lovely holiday but now I feel like we're not that welcome here and have been judged/looked down on in general. Do we really have a terrible reputation in France?

I wouldn't have let mine pick up and sit with toys they weren't going to buy.
I did a school French exchange when I was a teenager and the French teenagers were heavily into shoplifting. Not something we would have done. So the strict French parenting didn't seem to work when the parents weren't around.

Racism includes discrimination based on nationality (and ethnic, linguistic group, etc.), not just skin colour.

However, I don't think just making a comment is racist (particularly when it's true).

I have a 3 year old and it’s actually a thing. You apparently shouldn’t say no because it’s damaging somehow.

For absolutely everything. Consequential or not.

Say for example someone is hitting or taking something. You cant say no, stop hitting; no, give that toy back - we do not snatch. I have seen people say ‘remember we use gentle hands’ or ‘is this a toy we can share perhaps’.

Same for non consequential stuff. Like I saw a boy talking about how old they are. They say I am 8. Mum goes ‘are you’… ‘are you 8?’, ‘is that right’. Its like ffs; just tell the kid ‘no, you are 4’

My sister parented like that.
Her children have no manners and are very selfish as a result.

Oh yes! Ask a British toyshop assistant how they feel about straightening the plush after closing time.

I've lived in France as well as the UK. When I take DD to France I remind her of "France manners" - you don't touch things in shops, you don't run in supermarkets, you sit nicely in restaurants - and plenty more.

French children have much more leeway than British kids in terms of throwing themselves off playground equipment, running off from their parents in parks (British parents would have a fit at how far they go, French parents smile leniently) and being bloody horrible to each other in playgrounds or at playdates (assumed that they will resolve their own differences).

I don't think one is necessarily better than the other but I do think if you're aware of social customs you should let your children know them as a matter of fairness. There is no way I would have let my child touch the teddies in a French shop much less "give them a hairstyle" 😳whereas in an English shop it would be expected that children would pick up and handle anything that seemed child-friendly.

Yes, correct. Also, there is no official definition of race so those saying the English aren't a race are expressing an irrelevant opinion.

Their behaviour is not so good when parents aren’t around. Those who attend classes in secondary schools in England when they come over on exchange visits misbehave regularly.

Yes, I just posted about experiencing French teenagers shoplifting.

When you said your dc picked up 2 toys I assumed they had chosen them to buy. I wouldn’t let my dc sit and handle toys we had no intention of buying. My dc are now adults and I think I spent years telling them “don’t touch” and “put that back, you can’t afford it”. I think you should have told them to put them back if you had no plans on buying them.

She is right. You let your children handle items and then put them back without paying!

Haha as a mum of a 3yo this tickled me. I tried the heavy explanation stuff for a while and it just doesn't bloody work 😂A good old fashioned stern "no" or "stop" works wonders!

I am more worried that there were tooth pick pieces of wood in stuffed toys that children would have bought for them! Potential for a nasty injury right there surely

In terms of parenting, please do not let your children handle soft toys until you have paid for them.

It is extremely easy for dirt/stickiness to be transferred to the toy and strangely enough no-one wants to buy a soft toy in that state, especially as they are often gifts.

So essentially when you allow your child to cuddle/hold/kiss a soft toy you are stealing it because it cannot then be sold and will have to be discarded. You might as well steal it because the end result is the same.

They also lock away autistic kids and pretend they don’t exist

This. Try parenting them?

I’m in my 50s. In the early 1980s I went on a school trip to France. I think I was 13. We went into a nic nac shop and I still remember the woman yelling “NE TOUCHEZ PAS!!!” We didn’t break anything and I did buy something but I remember her over 40 years on.

i don’t think your parenting was great tbh. It’s different in France… but I’m with the French.

Is it xenophobic against the English though when at least two nationalities were mentioned?

Kids shouldn't play with stuff in shops tbh, even toys, as often they can make them messy or damage them. My toddler isn't allowed to handle stuff, especially after the time he sneezed about 5 times in quick succession on a tiny jellycat soft toy I then of course had to buy, for the princely sum of £28 quid in a central London shop 😂

However, I work at a tourist destination and French kids are the absolute worst behaved groups we encounter. Maybe uts when they're in mobs, maybe they're more well behaved when in a family setting though.

I don’t think your kids were badly behaved, I think you were. You let your children sit in chairs playing with and damaging toys that you had no intention of playing with, whilst you perused the shop, stuck them back, not as you found them, and then left. She had a point.

It’s not racist or xenophobic. She’d have said the same to badly behaved French kids/parents.

I don’t think you have done anything wrong.

I wouldn’t aspire to the the French parenting style. It’s overly strict. I’ve seen French parents smack their kids in supermarkets it’s horrible.

Oh I agree with the French shopkeeper.

I was disputing the criticism was racism.

I go to France every year and usually get involved with kids’ activities that are mostly geared towards the locals. And trust me, the meltdowns, tantrums, and refusal to listen are definitely not unique to British kids 😂.

Honestly, I think your experience is more of a one-off. In my own trips, I’ve mostly found French people to be warm and welcoming. I’ve made some lovely French friends over the years, though yes, I’ve also run into a few grumpy types, especially in Paris (you find that everywhere though).

That said, your little ones probably shouldn’t have been handling the teddies. From the shopkeeper’s perspective, I can imagine she’s had plenty of stock ruined by curious kids over the summer, which means lost sales for her. She was out of line to generalise about “British/German parenting,” but it sounds more like frustration than genuine hatred?

Try not to take it to heart. Be a bit more mindful with the shop goods, and chalk it up as one bad experience during your trip. Enjoy the rest of your holiday!

I'm baffled by how your child "pointing out" a necklace to you caused the display to tip over.

We were never allowed to touch anything in a shop as children.

I don't think the shopkeeper was racist. There seems to have been a generational shift in the UK regarding what children are entitled to do. This doesn't seem to be replicated throughout Europe.

I do not allow my children to touch anything in a shop that we do not intend to buy, no matter how tired I am. If the value of the goods in the shop are too high, the children do not go in.