French shopkeeper thinks English parenting is terrible

[Turquoiseforever]

Long one sorry, but I've included details to try and give an accurate picture!

Holidaying in France currently and have had a memorable incident in a shop today that has given me some food for thought, just interested in other people's thoughts on this.

Gave my oldest kids (3 & 6) €5 each to buy a souvenir of their choice at our local seaside town. Most shops turned out to be quite bougie and aimed at adults, but saw one which looked hopeful. Had an A-frame sign outside with a plastic colourful beach windmill on it, and a rack of children's clothes. Went in and quickly realised it was again full of very valuable things. At one end was a basket of handmade crocheted teddies, handmaid kids clothing, and some wooden toys. The kids took a look at the teddies, picked one up each then sat in two kids chairs holding them on their laps for a few minutes while I had a quick look round the shelves around them. We had a look at a few other things together, for full disclosure: when we entered my 3yo picked up a very delicate cup which I quickly set down and reminded her not to do. As we were leaving my 6yo very gently pointed out a necklace to me on a very flimsy stand that started to tip over, which I caught before it fell and set upright again. They looked at a few other things without incident or touching.

We didn't spend long, said merci and went on our way. About 10 mins later a lady from the shop approached us in the street and informed me my kids had broken two toys in her shop. We went back with her and found out that the rabbit teddies they had been holding had some very thin toothpick-like sticks of wood in each ear (to shape them a bit) which had been broken by my daughters twisting the ears, pretending to give them a 'hair style'. I had no idea at all they had been broken. Obviously this is my responsibility and error of judgement, and was totally correct to be brought to my attention.

However, the lady also subjected me to a rant about how French children would NEVER pick things up in a shop, they are taught "limits", whereas all summer she has had English, German etc children visiting and breaking things and being given "no limits" by their parents. Complained we had left the place a mess and her husband had to tidy behind us, because the teddies were placed back in the basket but not sat upright as previously displayed (I had set the chairs back carefully but admittedly been distracted from checking the basket).

I pushed back (calmly!) on her generalised critique of my parenting, and she said she has just lost patience after a summer full of similar experiences and essentially admitted this lecture wasn't personal. Still, it was pretty heavy handed to give in public in front of my children and other customers.

To be clear I know I made an error. We had been in a few quite breakable shops already which required heavy parenting, and I guess I saw an opportunity for a quick relief for us all. Normally I would supervise my children looking at anything handmade, so it was a lax moment, but I did think they were just wool and stuffing and wouldn't suffer at all from light playing. Also, typically I wouldn't take my children into these kind of shops. They have never broken anything in a shop before!

I just wonder how humbled I should be. Did I just catch this lady on a really bad day? Was she a bit racist? Are french children really that obedient all the time? Should I strike it off as a bad day and move on without too much thought, or do I take the criticism on board more strongly and accept I should be stricter with things like this and re-evaluate my parenting?! Do we really have much lower standards in the UK?

It's a shame, we've had a lovely holiday but now I feel like we're not that welcome here and have been judged/looked down on in general. Do we really have a terrible reputation in France?

All teenagers on school trips behave badly, it's almost a law. There's a sketch in Adrian Mole about it.

Definitely not exclusive to French school trips

French children are smacked and shouted at a lot in public. There’s also a blind sort of submission to authority.

I like France and make sure I stay away from accommodation too full of British children. I have no idea why you would let your children sit on chair and play with toys that they aren’t buying. I would expect children to be taught to look with their eyes or to hold hands. I suspect older British women and French society are at similar stages. I do y think being fed up with the behaviour of British children means she is suffering from anything more than confirmation bias.

People are allowed to speak about patterns of behaviour that they have observed. Your family - both yourself and your children - were disrespectful and poorly behaved. She has observed a similar pattern of behaviour from tourists in her shop all summer. She is not xenophobic to speak about that. She is talking specifically about her observations and her experiences.

Personally I think she's been unlucky, as I don't think any of my British friends or family would allow their children to behave as you allowed yours to.

I'm assuming this is satire but I'm pretty sure many of the similar posts on this thread are not!

Are people making the distinction between racism and xenophobia because they think xenophobia is somehow OK?!

C'est vrai!

😂

You let your dc play with toys in a shop for a few minutes that you had no intention of buying? wtf? That’s not British parenting just lazy and ignorant.

No. It’s Xenophobic, if anything.

No, it’s because words have meaning and should be used correctly.

Or maybe it’s accurate?

I live in France in a very touristy area. French children are often left to their own devices more, in a park it’s the British parents hovering over their children while the French are sat down. French adults are much more likely to tell off a strangers child than in the UK and French parents are much more likely to give a slap or drag away a child.
I find the French often have a disdain for my children existing- such as won’t make way on a footpath for my pushchair or shop keeper’s and other patrons won’t help with the door of shops and restaurants. My children often get told off by strangers for what I perceive to be normal child behaviour but my English children’s French peers are certainly not any better behaved than they are.

Don't forget that French children don't throw food. Definitely no food fights in French school canteens, that could never happen. :)

I can't believe I'm getting more flack for using the word racist colloquially to mean xenophobic, as many non-pedants IRL use the word, than the actual blatant cases of xenophobia on this thread. The mind boggles

I personally wouldn’t take my children into a shop, sit them down and give them a toy to play with, especially one that I wasn’t going to buy. That is indeed very lax. Then to get up, put them back broken and leave, I’m not surprised the women shouted at you.

At three years old my son would not have been touching anything. Probably would not even be in a shop with expensive items unless he was secured in his pushchair. And normally I’d have him on reins.

So I vote that you are being unreasonable.

I think having walked in the shop I'd have quickly walked out when I saw the type of things inside, you said that you immediately had to tell dd to be careful with a cup. So yabu for staying in an unsuitable shop.
The woman was a bit ott with her reaction. It's not all children, not all British children etc. Of course it isn't. But she was clearly annoyed and maybe this was the 2nd or third example
Lesson learned and move on

Having lived in France I think French kids are more disciplined. They certainly don’t go in for any of this soft parenting crap which seems to be producing a generation of entitled, spoilt kids.

From my many visits to France I would say that French parenting reminds me of parenting during my own upbringing. They are very firm and to be honest I saw the level of warmth of years ago.

In that way the shop assistant had a point but French parenting is not something personally I aspire to.

To each their own.

People are allowed to speak about patterns of behaviour that they have observed

They may be "allowed to" but it comes across as prejudice.

Compare these statements (not my actual views, illustrations of prejudice):

Old people get confused easily.
Poor people are fat.
Chinese children are good at maths.
British children are badly behaved.

You can't hide offensive prejudice behind a veil of "but these are patterns I've observed". Just no.

When a group of French teenagers visited our town in South Wales - staying at a summer school at a high end private school - they caused mayhem shoplifting so to my mind people in glass houses etc!

From the EHRC :

In the Equality Act, race can mean your colour, or your nationality (including your citizenship). It can also mean your ethnic or national origins, which may not be the same as your current nationality.

So yes, you are being racist if you are discriminating against someone because of their nationality

At least under Uk law

Your child twisted the teddy to give it a new hairstyle and you didn’t buy it/didn’t notice? I don’t think she should have made sweeping generalisations but you were cheeky and not supervising properly

Er, no. It isn't a colloquialism; it's just wrong.

Hi, I'm half French/half Brit and have lived (and taught) in both countries so have plenty to say on this topic. Generally speaking, French parenting of younger children is more strict and less permissive than in the UK. Gentle parenting has not caught on in the mainstream (look into the cadre if you want to find out more, typing in a bit of a hurry.) However it doesn't exactly sound like you were letting them run riot... letting them play with the toys might not have been the best idea but it's not that out there. Shopkeeper probably just had her fill of tourists and spoke her mind.

I agree. It's not necessarily that the children behave better, but the parents are onto them all the time, talking to them all the time and shaping their behaviour.

@MumoftwoNC You are correct, as stated in the EHRC website, that I have quoted above

They are wrong.