I am so frustrated - anyone want to join a "my 3 year old won't potty train" support group?

[Nettee]

DS is 3.3 now and I went cold turkey with the pants again yesterday. Tried a new method of stickers for every half hour with clean dry pants. DS sat willingly on the toilet for long periods saying that he needed to do a wee. I was also a bit harsher when he had accidents than I have been in the past - not cross just dissapointed. Accidents all day, nothing in the toilet. I thought I should keep going today and was all set with the pants this morning but DS said that he wanted to wear his nappy, that he can't wee in the toilet and that he was sad and wanted to go to bed so I caved in and he is back in his nappy. I think it is just going to be a waiting game and I am sure that one day he will train himself in no time as all but it is so frustrating and I suppose I am worried about what other people think. I am probably nagging him to much about it and thinking about it too much myself. I wonder if there is some great psychological reason why he doesn't want to do it or if I am not trying hard enough. Anyway really just wanted to let off steam and hear stories from people in the same situation. Any stories about 3 year olds suddenly cracking it are very welcome!

Niamh29 - sorry, potty training is very stressful isn't it!?!

Personally if you are having more accidents than successes at 2.4 mths I would leave it for a bit. I tried to potty train Ds when he was 2.8 and although he seemed keen and tried bless him he did not have a clue when he needed a wee or poo so LOTS of accidents it went on for DAYS!!

I left it till he was 2.11 before trying again we are not totally sorted, hence being on this thread!! but wees cracked within 2 days poos still not cracked and ALWAYS in pants but will not go back to nappies because of the wee.

If it isn't working go back to nappies. The important thing to remember is that you never she a child going to school in nappies. The all get there in the end. If there are tons of accidents happening - like niamh - then I would sat that the child jusrt isn't ready. Ig nore out mum, your mil and random old ladies on beses. Go back to nappies, have fun, don't waste time shampooing carpets. Sooner or later your child will say "I don't want to wear nappies any more" and you can say "OK darling, here are some pants and here is the loo"

Generally speaking, if getting out of nappies takes longer than a day or so, you've started too early. Stop and stsrt again in 3 months.

Thanks seeker
I'm feeling pressure from preschool

Don't let pre-school pressure you - it's not their business when you child is out of nappies. Just smile sweetly and say "She'll get there when she's ready" and move on. Don't let them boss you!

Eeeeeeeeekkkkkkkkkk!!!
How stressful is this?
Went 'cold turkey' in big boy pants because his nappy fell off and he didn't want another one on. So I thought I'd seize the opportunity.
Been three hours and we've had six, yes six, changes of pants. Including one incident where he stood in front of me, peeing on the carpet and then just laughed.
We did have one success in the potty but he had no clue he'd actually done anything, it was pointed out when he'd walked away. Nevertheless, there was much praise heaped, a phone call to daddy and the gift of a sweetie.
Ten minutes later he was leaving another trail on the carpet. Aaaaarrrrghhhhhh!
How long does one leave it before admitting defeat?

Think I have tempted fate by saying wees are cracked 3 accidents today in pants and 2 poos (in pants of course!!) Grrrrrrr

Aphrodite - how old is he? I tried to potty train when Ds was 2.8 and lasted 4 days no successes at all all wees on carpet & floor. Started training him this time when he was 2.11 a few weeks ago. wees on the whole not too bad don't ask me about poo

Just a few words, when are you young mums going to realise that you are in charge of the kids and not the other way around? (Ducks into the air raid shelter) Get rid of the nappies, buy some pants, use them, tell ds you expect him to tell you he wants the toilet and be in charge of the operation, he is not in charge of you. This potty training lark is parent led not child led, they have all that is required by this age to do it, except the right motivation, which is to please you and do as you want and not as they want. It will be over within a week.

hmmm pooky....

firstly, I am 38 and a half years old so, thanks for the compliment, but

Secondly - I am in charge of my kids, however, short of reaching into his bladder or tuning in telepathically, I can't predict when my son is going to relieve himself so have minimal control over this. And boy does he know it!

I did this four years ago with DD and breezed through it, but someone seems to have changed all the rules since DS arrived (simpson - he'll be 3 on tuesday)

Pooky - I am not a young mum either (36)and second what aphrodite said

Ds is normally ok with wees as i said before but today I changed his clothes 3 times in 10 mins Really am at my wits end with poos. DS controls the situation and he knows it (like yours aphrodite!!)Have tried ignoring accidents, reward charts, presents/bribes... any other ideas gratefully received!!

Aphrodite - I would definitely persevere for a bit longer. Think you are doing great so far!!

I am more than 10 years older than that! I just don't think it's worth wasting any energy or angst over. They'll do it when they are ready - you very rarely see children going to school in nappies. I had better things to do with my time when my children were this age than say "do you need a pee? Are you sure? Shall we just try?' every 10 minutes for 3 months!

hello all!!! am not going to join the thread but am coming to say that i know where you are at and you have my deepest sympathies.
it was not a case of not taking control as has been so patronisingly said but-he just couldn't do it!
he was 4 before he was clean and dry. it was a nightmare.

BUT!! he's clean now!¬ it does work out in the end.

Thanks themildmanneredstalker - we will get there in the end

Hi girlies you are still half my age, so simpson you have put your finger on it when you say ds controls the situation and boy does he know it, precisely what I was saying. Also your son has you bounced on this Aphrodite, you said yourself he knows it, do you know why they are miraculously trained as soon as they start school, cos a) they want to be and b) the teachers dont stand for changing nappies. They are running circles around you, stop making a production out of it, giving them loads of attention and deal with the task in hand without transferring any power into their hands. I watched in horror (and held my tongue) as my ddil 'trained' her dd, it went on for four and a half years! They went away for the weekend and left me to look after dgd and dgs, at the end of the first day she was asking to go to the toilet, what happened when mum came home, she put her back in nappies, unbelievable. Please believe me I am not trying to be holier than thou, just helpful, kids need to know whos in charge.

You asked for any ideas and suggestion, I gave mine, if thats patronizing then I beg your pardon, good night

Pooky - you are right in some ways and although my son does control the situation I think it is out of fear. he is frightened to do a poo on the toilet guess its much harder than in potty/toilet the "unknown" IYSWIM.

Have tried emptying pants into toilet to hear plop (sorry TMI)so he knows what sound poo makes but I do genuinely think he is scared so he refuses to try

I'm 46, is that les than half your age Pooky [wink} ?

I think parents today (whatever their age)are often less authoratative (more inclined to negotiate, more inclined to allow choices, less punitive) than the previous generation. That's a trend - and no doubt there will be further trends to come. And it means that boundaries are still being set at this age (which would have been done and dusted in our own parents' time by now) and that may make a lot of things like PT more difficult.

But that is our parenting culture and I guess we have to find a way to work within that.

Morning ladies,
Acinonyx - think you've hit the nail on the head - it's a generational thing, and I have to admit that in some respects I've made my own bed in which I have to lie with the parenting approach that I'm taking.
So, Pooky, I concur that you do have a point, although its possibly less relevant in our current situations.
Currently, I'm wondering if a different appraoch is required in an older child, as he seems not to care a jot about wetting his pants (we went through nine pairs yesterday) and has started announcing "never mind" after each accident.
I'm not going as far as reprimanding him for accidents but do ask him if he knows that he did something 'wrong' and he acknowledges that ("is it a good idea to wee in your pants/on the carpet" "no") and seems to understand that it would be best to do it in the potty but just can't/won't put it into practise.
The problem is that he starts pre-school in January. we live at an RAF base in Cyprus and the school has a no-nappy policy (not sure if service schools entirely adhere to ofsted rules).
Have decided to stick this out till the end of the weekend and if no progress is made we'll try again over the half-term holiday.
Problem is, I have a 6 y/o DD with a very busy after-school curriculum and DH works shifts with an on-call roster so staying housebound during school term-time is a nightmare.
Sorry, this was a bit of a drawn-out rant, thanks everyone for all the support.

i have had ds sat on the toilet for an hour before now, because i knew he needed a poo. he did not poo. as soon as i allowed him to get off and pull his pants back up he pooed himself.

i was changing pants umpteen times a day.

he finally did it when HE was ready not when i was ready for him to do it.

Aphrodite - I see your dilemma. I'm not sending dd to preschool partly for this reason (but other reasons too).

I hate being trapped indoors due to PT and dd goes to CM 3 days (may go up to 4) so can't take a week at home anyway.

Since we are clearly going the very slow route I am putting her in knickers when she asks for them at home but pull-ups to go out. She asks for knickers a lot but doesn't care if she soils them - so it's not proving to be much of an incentive. I've told her that she can have knickers to go out when she can go on the potty or toilet. I also have mats for the car or other seat if necessary. I'm prepared to deal with accidents out and about rather than be indoors for weeks on end - but not much point trying that yet as she can't use the potty at all yet.

Dd will sit on the potty for up to an hour but what she won't do is sit on it frequently throughout the day so we never catch anything in it.

She has also recently become a great deal more difficult generally - tantrumming and refusing to do basic things (nappy changes, dressing, bath etc).

Thanks for the support everyone.
Am coming to the conclusion that he is simply not ready - he really has no idea that he is about to do a wee or poo - only when he has done it. (and sometimes not even then).
Thought we were making some headway when, after a protracted time of sitting on the potty, we had a couple of results but we've had twice, maybe three times, as many accidents, some immediately after he gets up off the potty.
I very nearly lost my rag when I found him splashing in a newly made wee puddle, announcing what fun it was. He'll sit (and dance) in his own filth without a care in the world.
Frankly I now think he's getting bored with the whole potty business and is starting to play up really badly, throwing it around the room and behaving in ways I know that antagonise me, including proudly showing me places he's soiled. It's getting very, very hard not rising to the bait.
Earlier today the threat of putting a nappy back on was enough to send him back to the potty, but, now, he's asking to have the nappy put on. Any longer than five minutes sitting and he's announcing "I can't do it", or "it won't come".
Thanks for letting me vent. Am running out of options except going back to square one.

It definitely seems to be poos that are the issue. I asked DD in Tescos the other day if she wanted her nappy off to go to the toilet before we went shopping and reminded her to ask if she needed to go. I turned away from her for a few moments then lifted her into the trolley and as I sat her down she announced she had pooed. I asked her why she didnt tell me she replied 'I wanted it flat in my nappy mummy!!' Sometimes I want to scream in sheer frustration!!!

aphrodite-in your position i would just stop and have a break for a week.

don't talk about it, don't mention it, don't refer to it. nothing.

put a nappy on him and have no conversation about it at all.

after the week was over, i would do a simple start chart and every time he did a wee on the potty he got a chocolate button.
every time he did a poo he got 2 chocolate buttons.
plus a star on the chart.

if he managed a row of stars he would get a train or a car or whatever he lusts after.

this is what worked for us in the end.

Aphrodite I have reached that conclusion and we're taking a break. DD, who can be obsessively fastidious about a speck of dirt or crumb of food, will also happily slide around the kitchen floor in her own wee and play happily with pooey knickers.

She sits on the potty, gets up, looks in and turns up her hands exclaiming 'it didn't come!' - she just has no clue whether it is coming or not.

I think this is by far the most stressful parenting episode yet.

Another usual day here all wees in toilet but all poos in pants

The thing that annoys me is he won't tell me he has done one so by the time I notice/smell it, there is a right old mess. Grrr...

He also knows when he is going i think as he has an uncanny ability to wait till he is on his own. It was his 3rd birthday party today and the second all the guests had gone he did a poo in pants.

Can I join?

DD3 (dc no 5) will be 3 in December and shows no signs of wanting to be parted from her nappies.

She is too big to be wearing nappies and they clearly cause her discomfort.
I can see her going straight into tena lady pads