Teen daughter and male youth leader…

[FeatherGold]

My daughter (year 12, now 17) volunteers at a youth club for kids with SEN. She absolutely loves it but is also hoping to get a good reference for future uni applications etc. She’s been doing this for around 2 years.

One of the group leaders (let’s call him Dave) is around 45 and is well known as a charismatic but slightly ‘mad’ figure - in that the kids all seem to love him, but he doesn’t do anything by the book. He has no regard for admin or ‘procedures’, but he’s full of energy and ideas and gets the kids doing stuff they would never have thought possible. You get the picture.

I’m worried because he messages my daughter directly on her phone, and given his position as a youth leader and the age difference, it feels very inappropriate. He’ll ask her how her exams went - stuff like that - but most recently, suggested they meet for a drink to discuss an idea he has as a project for the kids.

I’m glad she’s telling me these things and she just laughs it off as ‘It’s just Dave, everyone knows he forgets the rules and just gets carried away with ideas’. She also has no intention of meeting him alone and gives him factual answers - nothing more.

How do I deal with this? He’s so careless in his actions that part of me thinks it is just a sort of disregard for conventional rules. I’d hate to cause a fuss around someone who is considered an inspirational figure at the club. But I’m also deeply uncomfortable about him messaging my daughter. It just feels wrong.

I should add that if I raised the issue or reported him, my daughter would be furious. She loves the club, is hopeful of getting a great reference, and she would see it as a huge betrayal of trust.

I expect Dave is the person who has told your DD that he'll be supplying a reference for Uni...

(He won't be because he's not in an official role).

Very, very inappropriate. This breaks all sorts of safeguarding and gdpr rules! He really should know that if he has been trained properly. Out of interest, why does your daughter think she needs a volunteers reference for uni? Typically reference that goes on a ucas form is from school/college.

Youth leader here -
totally inappropriate and he will know this !
if he is the jolly fab guy he appears to be, he will take a reminder about the safeguarding policies on the chin with a gosh, thanks so much, good point etc ..
if he reacts other than this … bingo !!
please report
safeguarding children and young people is everyone’s duty

This. Also this is part of being an adult..you have to stand up for things that aren't OK. Yeah it's a bit awkward and it doesn't have to turn into a huge drama but there are ways of addressing this. Ignoring it isn't one of then.

safeguarding children and young people is everyone’s duty

Its everyones duty to report but not to feel overwhelmed about what happens next - thats down to the experts to investigate.

In many roles if you dont report you are deemed negligent if something comes to light down the line.

I see it as like the notice on the trains - report anything suspicious - others will do the rest.

Totally this. I would mention to your dqughter that perhaps it is best to get familiar with safeguarding and ask Dave an other volunteers to go through it together and when it comes to contact about events etc that she suggest ab email group where they can all be part of an ongoing thread and that way everyone will get the same messages.
Someone with intentions will not share publicly so it avoids any creepiness and if he continues to message outside of that you know it is intentional and can blow the whistle on him .

As someone who manages volunteers who are under 18, it is difficult. For those under 16 I insist that all communication goes via the parent, they are the one in the group chat etc. If they are happy for the child to communicate with me directly via email or WhatsApp I request that it is done with the parent copied in too.
Once they are over 16, if the parent is happy for them to communicate directly with me then I am okay with that but tend to have them in the group chat where appropriate, and keep individual messaging just for notifying me of absence etc. We do have some volunteers nights out and I would invite the entire group chat, it's up to them and their parent to decide whether it's appropriate or not, but they are only as part of a group not individually.
If they had a paid job at 16 all communication with their manager would go directly to them not through parents so I can't insist on it past that age.

Dave might not be genuine though and likely he isn't!

Exactly… never underestimate how much of a long game and how much effort these creeps put into making you doubt your suspicions.

You can insist on it actually as it's a different context. For example children in a school or college in thr 16-18 age group would.not be allowed to receive communications from their teacher via WhatsApp.

It doesn’t sound like you got a fair deal financially when you split up. If he isn’t willing to sell the house and give you the half you are entitled to then you should definitely move to your parents so you can save for your future.

Do not ignore your instinct.
And do not be sure she is telling you all of it. She may be leaving bits out to make it sound harmless because she’s convincing herself it is (not to be deliberately devious).

As a teen I was in this position, I was very naive and it was not innocent. Luckily another youth worker stepped in and questioned a comment I made.
The person was removed from the organisation, but it came out it wasn’t before he had had inappropriate relationships with at least 3 other young people in the 15-18 age bracket.
is there someone else you can just “mention” it to - confidentially. You need to protect your daughter and if she does find out she will forgive you one day.

I used to work as a support worker for people with learning disabilities, supporting them in their own home. We had an agency worker who came in quite a lot. He came across a great guy, interesting, funny - caring towards our clients.

He moved on eventually. 6 months later he was in the news for r*ping a toddler.

They hide in plain sight. If not your daughter, Dave will find someone else.

Oh I know he can easily be creepy without presenting as so but it’s a good place to start

It’s really not. Thinking sex offenders/ predatory men are ‘creepy’ means people don’t spot the real predators. You can’t spot a paedophile/ predator by their personality but only by their behaviour.
Predators have to present as good, decent men to get access to victims. I watched a programme where victims speak and their stories were the same. Their abusers were the last person anyone suspected. One was the victim of the much loved, much respected community police officer. They have personalities people warm to. I read an article by quite a well known parenting expert who had just found out her much loved family dentist had been convicted of abusing a young patient. After winning the trust and friendship of her parents. She was shocked. And wrote the article to warn people that you really cannot spot predators by their personality and character.

I sometimes think we have been programmed by films and T&v shows to think really bad people look bad. They don’t.

Back to Dave. He has to be reported. Even if your daughter does not fall under normal safeguarding rules, this has to be reported. He is a man who is behaving as you would expect a man with sexual interest in very young women to behave, and who is prepared to act on it rather than realise it’s not appropriate. There is a huge power dynamic just due to age between a 17 year old and a 45 year old.
As a minimum, He needs to be watched as a potential risk and he certainly needs to be warned off young volunteers. Your daughter is secure enough to reject his advances, but his next target may be more vulnerable.

I would report him locally and to HQ.

Oh, and by the way, there’s no ‘the rules don’t apply to me!’ When you work with children and young people. It’s a heavily regulated area for very good reason.

All this combined, disregard for rules, making himself invaluable, ‘grooming’ young volunteers and then asking them one to one for drinks on thin pretexts, means he is a real concern.

My DD volunteers at a similar set up. They have a group chat where all communication goes, there are no private messages allowed from either side. It sounds very dodgy to me.

Regardless of how great or charismatic he is, he needs to be following policy I am afraid. You definitely need to report it. Even if he is well-meaning, he needs a talking to. I wouldn’t feel comfortable him directly messaging a 17 year old given the age difference. It’s just not appropriate whatsoever.

It is possible to run a great youth club, have wonderful ideas and energy and still keep within policies, procedures and boundaries. These ‘charismatic’ types usually end up causing problems for other people

Your ‘gut’ is telling you that something is not right about ‘Dave’ because it’s not.
And people like this are just dismissed as unorthodox or eccentric - until hindsight tells us otherwise…

It’s definitely a red flag. He cannot work with kids and choose which rules apply to him and which don’t. And if he’s texting your DD he may well be texting others or meeting up with them. It’s good that your DD is telling you but I wonder if her reason for not wanting you to say anything is fear of the repercussions for her… which is understandable but that is exactly how people like Dave frequently get away with abusing kids - they know they hold an element of power. Is there a manager you could speak to? And ideally trying to explain to your DD that his behaviour is problematic (if possibly well intentioned) but he does need to be challenged and trained … but it’s v hard to speak out .

I think regardless of the context, a 45 year old messaging a 17 year old on her phone is inappropriate. Someone is going to have to have a ‘quiet word’

DD should just keep doing as she is now. Never alone with him. Never meeting up outside of work. Keeping all communication professional.

Asking her to go for a drink is very iffy to me , I always like to see the positive rather than the negative, if he suggested coffee at club I’d take zero notice , but a drink , I don’t know , i might be be wrong , still though he’s 45 , surely he sees , it’s not really appropriate given your daughter is 17 , asking her to go for a drink to discuss whatever …
Luckily, ( if he does have ulterior motives ) your daughter won’t be having any of it & will come to you ..
I hope he turns out to be a decent guy , you said the kids love him …

What a tricky one ! As some have said, your daughter is handling this brilliantly and is savvy and obviously ready for uni. Presumably Dave is not the one giving the reference ? It is however a bit selfish to assume ( esp with SEN involved) that everyone will be as clued up. I certainly wouldn’t go over his head and report- however IF Dave is naively but wilfully ( as a grown adult male ) ignoring all the extensive safeguarding courses and training he will definitely have had to undergo then a quiet word from you might save his career and the organisation’s reputation. If his intentions are otherwise and his response is anything other than mortified/ apologetic then that tells you all you need to know. It’s possible that having a “ it’s just Dave , he ignores the rules” attitude is not the best or safest way to run this group no matter how dynamic and charismatic he is. Jimmy Saville also raised loads for charity and was much loved by many!!

Totally inappropriate, he was in a position of trust when they met. Regardless of the fact she is now 18, it could be very unprofessional not to acknowledge that in future dealings.
I would be very careful around him. 'Just Dave' is no reason to be tone deaf

Yeah I agree with pp, "it's just Dave" is a massive red flag. When we are talking about safeguarding there can't be people who are allowed to step outside the rules and customs because they're a 'character', or a big personality, or whatever it might be. Google mike pivalachi (sp), a charismatic Christian youth leader who wrestled the young lads he supported...he had favourites and gave others the cold shoulder. Everyone said "it's just Mike" until the safeguarding enquiry.