Teen daughter and male youth leader…

[FeatherGold]

My daughter (year 12, now 17) volunteers at a youth club for kids with SEN. She absolutely loves it but is also hoping to get a good reference for future uni applications etc. She’s been doing this for around 2 years.

One of the group leaders (let’s call him Dave) is around 45 and is well known as a charismatic but slightly ‘mad’ figure - in that the kids all seem to love him, but he doesn’t do anything by the book. He has no regard for admin or ‘procedures’, but he’s full of energy and ideas and gets the kids doing stuff they would never have thought possible. You get the picture.

I’m worried because he messages my daughter directly on her phone, and given his position as a youth leader and the age difference, it feels very inappropriate. He’ll ask her how her exams went - stuff like that - but most recently, suggested they meet for a drink to discuss an idea he has as a project for the kids.

I’m glad she’s telling me these things and she just laughs it off as ‘It’s just Dave, everyone knows he forgets the rules and just gets carried away with ideas’. She also has no intention of meeting him alone and gives him factual answers - nothing more.

How do I deal with this? He’s so careless in his actions that part of me thinks it is just a sort of disregard for conventional rules. I’d hate to cause a fuss around someone who is considered an inspirational figure at the club. But I’m also deeply uncomfortable about him messaging my daughter. It just feels wrong.

I should add that if I raised the issue or reported him, my daughter would be furious. She loves the club, is hopeful of getting a great reference, and she would see it as a huge betrayal of trust.

So your daughter has been volunteering with the 45 year old Crazy Dave since she was 15, but he only started texting her when she was 16 and then inviting her for a drink at 17.

Totally legit.

As CheekySnake said:

The boundary was crossed the moment he sent her that message. There's no grey area here.

He knows what he is doing. Please report.

Exactly! I’m shocked the OP is even having to think about what she’s going to do!!!

But the real issue here is that she may not be the only one, and if people do not flag this up then on it goes, possibly with someone less on the ball and more vulnerable.
There is no way of knowing if she is the only one.

safeguarding is everyone’s concern

I’ve run a youth club in the past and I’d rather be told about any concerns so that they can be investigated. I’d also be happy for someone to report or raise concerns about me if they felt I was being inappropriate in my role.

if she’s concerned about a reference being in jeopardy id be worried about that too - has it been a “don’t tell or I’ll not give you a reference” conversation?

A reference doesn’t have to come from Dave it can come from someone else at the club

she should really be reporting the messages to someone at the club, in the very least to ask if this is normal

Can you explain to your DD about how the breaking of boundaries can have serious repercussions down the road for the people she volunteers to help plus other volunteers who aren't as clued in as she is?

So a warning for him (even if it IS innocent) is only a Good Thing? Might stop a very predatory situation in the future?

Exactly - this is how groomers get away with it and continue to flourish.

As others have said - what Dave is is not directly breaking safeguarding as your daughter is a volunteer not a member of the club.

But....what he is doing is inappropriate and smacks of grooming.

Do not approach Dave directly or complain to the club as not only would that break your daughters trust, it could also be easily covered up or brushed off as an innocent mistake, even if it isn't.

If you report it to the LADO at the local authority that the club is in, they will do the investigating and decide whether a Position of Trust meeting is required. They would contact the employer to discuss first and they will also be aware of any other allegations or concerns that have been raised.

If they decide that there is cause for serious concern, they will convene a POT meeting with all relevant people and decide on next actions. Depending on how severe they deem it to be, they may want to talk to your daughter - but if it is serious enough for them to do that, then you will know you have absolutely done the right thing.

If they decide that based on the evidence it is simply misguided behaviour, they will advise the employer on what to do in terms of speaking to Dave and probably recommend that they update their safeguarding policy to cover underage volunteers.

More importantly, they will have the incident on record, so that if there are any complaints made about Dave in the future, they will be able to start building a picture.

You can ask to be kept anonymous and if Dave ends up getting spoken to but let off with a warning and puts two and two together, your daughter can claim deniability and say she doesn't know who reported it.

This is the single most inappropriate and dangerous post on the thread. Please say your work does not in sny way include Safeguarding responsibilities.

I've worked with teenage volunteers. I would never suggest meeting just one of them on their own. There should be other leaders there, and other volunteers too.
A leader should not be wacky around safeguarding rules.
The organisation should speak to him about this - can you report anonymously?

Remember you are not your daughter's friend.

You're her guardian, her safeguard, her rock.

Kids and teens cannot see as far as we can. Hazards and consequences are seldom top of their minds.

They may also fixate on things like fitting in, not upsetting people, not being embarrassing.

This is then used by manipulative abusers.

You need to do something now that will embarrass and exasperate your daughter. You managing that consequence is more important than you ducking that duty.

I always think that there are paedos and incels on MN trying to make people doubt themselves.

Anyone who works or volunteers with vulnerable adults and/or children KNOW he is in the wrong already.

At 45 your DD isnt the first and wont be the last.

Get her educated and report. If there is nothing to see - surely Crazy Dave/ Mr Wacky wil be impressed by her initiative as I would be if I had inadvertently over-stepped and was reported. Nothing to worry about.

I tend to see the good in people and am really struggling with this. Especially as I see how much good Dave does for a lot of disadvantaged kids. I know how lame that sounds but it’s the truth. And then there’s my daughter too. It really is quite complicated, even if it seems black and white from the outside

This is how predators operate OP. Hiding in plain sight, pillars of the community, doing good works.

I'm not saying Dave is a predator but frankly you would be doing everyone a favour if you reported it. If it's innocent but misguided, Dave will be reminded of his responsibilities. Your DD will know you have her back. And the children Dave works with will know that trusted adults will never have private messages with them.

Your DD sounds very sensible and it sounds like you have great trust between you, but Dave may be trying the same with others who aren't as mature for their age.

A 45year old man is just so excited about youth group, that he can't help but text teenagers? Yeah right.
That's wildly inappropriate and needs reporting. Even if Dave is just a well meaning idiot, if he's doing it who else is doing it? The kids and young volunteers need to know that it shouldn't be happening.

Groomers groom the parents and their colleagues/fellow volunteers/hobby mates well before they make any moves on the children. In my case he joined the church choir, made himself very helpful with lots of DIY and odd jobs, charmed all the old ladies, spun a whole tale about how his wife had had an affair and left him, wouldn't let him see his kids (she had been helped to escape to a refuge and he wasn't allowed to see his kids). Got very friendly with young mums, offered to do odd jobs babysit etc etc. It is a long game. It isn't worth taking any risks. Anyone working with vulnerable people in any capacity should have had safeguarding training. If they haven't, it isn't a safe place to volunteer, ditto if they have and are ignoring it.

Well-meaning idiots, even those who are not grooming young people, shouldn’t be in positions of responsibility with children. As PP says, what else is going on?

She may see it as a betrayal of trust but this is making me worried. He's breaking safeguarding protocol. And there a 30 year age gap. And you have a bad feeling. This is highly inappropriate at best and very creepy/ possibly grooming and I would be stepping in now and reporting him.

Exactly. There's not really any excuse.

I have to agree with this.

You (or your dd) needs to find out who the safeguarding lead is and report this behaviour.
If either you don't feel comfortable doing that, or you think nothing will be done, then put LADO and where you live into Google and report it to them.
Or report it to the NSPCC.

Whatever you do, please don't do nothing.
Your dd might have told you about the messages, and your dd might want to have nothing to do with him BUT OTHERS WON'T BE IN THE SAME POSITION.

Safeguarding is everyone's responsibility.

None of us know if 'Dave' has bad intentions or if he is incredibly naïve, but he needs to do (re-do?) Safeguarding Training and have someone assess what he has / hasn't taken on board, at the very least.

I had another thought - what does your DD mean when she says everyone knows Dave forgets the rules and doesn't follow procedures? Could you ask her to elaborate on that? Which rules and procedures does he ignore?

What kind of things does Dave do to get SEN kids they wouldn't think possible? 🤔

As a mother of a SEN child, if my child doesn't want to do something they won't.

I'd be more concerned about that tbh.

I would report him.

My DH coaches kids football & the refs are often under 18. When booking a youth ref or communicating with them he always goes through a parent, never directly to the child.

It's a safeguarding issue and this bloke knows he’s not supposed to do it. Your daughter might be sensible and switched on, what if he’s also messaging more vulnerable young people too. You need to report this.

This. What else is going on?

Safeguarding is everyone’s responsibility, including your daughter’s. If something is going on that isn’t right, she is also in a position of trust and responsibility in creating and maintaining a safe environment for some potentially very vulnerable young people. This isn’t just about her feelings, as difficult as that may be.

Also to reiterate others - how and why would he be giving a reference for university? A typical course only takes an academic reference from school/college. Is she applying for something with different requirements?

If she’s looking to go into teaching or social work or similar, understanding her role in safeguarding is vital.