My daughter is out of control

[VV12]

Just spent the last 3 hours battling with my 9 year old daughter to go to bed, she still isn't sleeping.
It started with the wrong pyjama's, then there was too much toothpaste on her toothbrush, then she wanted the original pyjamas, then I told her no tv in bed because of the way she was speaking to me "shut up" "do this/that now" "your so mean" "your getting on my last nerve" "stop telling me what to do"
Then a whole other meltdown began because of the no tv which has resulted in a 3 hour screaming battle because she says she can't sleep without the tv, baby was woken up by the screaming, partner woke up, everyone's frustrated/upset and now she's laying in bed as calm as anything (but still awake) while I'm downstairs in absolute tears, wanting to bang my head against the wall in frustration, baby just settled back down and partner telling me that I need to sort her behaviour out as he can't live with her anymore (he's not her dad)
I really don't know what to do anymore her behaviour is completely out of control.
I highly suspect she has some form of ADHD/ODD (it's in the family) not just from the behaviour but she just can't listen to any sort of instruction, can't keep still, talks non stop, fidgets a lot etc
I have tried speaking to the school but of course "shes an angel" in school and the teacher made me feel like the whole conversation was pointless and as if im just exaggerating and basically told me that the gp will be a waste of time as she's fine in school.
She is very good at masking her behaviour in school but every single morning is an absolute nightmare, can't get her out of bed, gives me attitude/ back chat the whole time she's getting ready, as soon as she steps foot in the car after school it's like the whole days frustration just comes pouring out of her.
Don't really know what I want out of this thread, I'm just at a loss, what the hell can I do with this behaviour?
Nothing bothers her, she don't care if I take things off her, she don't care if I shout/tell her off, she don't care if I stop her going anywhere, if I tell her to go to her room for a time out she just looks at me and says no so I physically have to pick her up and place her in her room, then she just throws herself around the room in a rage for ages, these meltdowns can last hours.
absolutely nothing works!

I'm not sure Roblox is ideal - it's very quick and flashy so very stimulating

And frustrating if they can't save it

This is insane. I agree with you that blended families don’t work in 99% of cases, however now that one has been attempted and there is another child, their needs have to be considered as well, and despite what some people may think, children have the right to an intact family except in the most extreme circumstances, and you can’t - or rather, shouldn’t - just be leaving relationships willy-nilly when you have children.

It’s also nowhere near unreasonable for the partner to expect a basic level of respect, the daughter certainly shouldn’t be allowed to treat him any worse than a random on the street, which means not actively abusing him. I think he’s probably partly to blame as well if he’s passively allowing himself to be disrespected by a child, the fact that he’s not her father has no bearing on the situation. I have no authority over my niece (or even any biological relationship to her), however, when she behaves disrespectfully to me, or rudely, as she unfortunately exhibits similarly behaviour to the girl being discussed, I immediately correct her, even if one of her parents or grandparents is present. It’s important that social correction for children doesn’t just come from their parents, it’s more impactful for children if they see society at large is not tolerant of certain behaviour.

Wrong pyjamas and too much toothpaste - surely she's doing all that on her own at 9? She should be managing herself.

Also seem to be a lot of contradictions - how is she listening to an app to go to sleep when her devices are blocked hours before bedtime?

It sounds like you're in a merry go round where as you take one thing away you give her something else she wanted instead. So that way she always wins.

I would stop micromanaging and leaving her to it, after taking away all the devices and using a white noise machine or standalone audio reader/maker of some sort that does nothing else - my sister used to have radio 4 on as a kid!

she isn't out of control. She should be allowed to choose what she finds most comfortable to go to sleep. She should of course also choose what amount of toothpaste she finds tolerable - a tiny dot is usually enough if she finds the taste too strong.

In addiition, why is she used to using TV/apps to go to sleep? Most children that age benefit from listening to stories read by their parent to wind down.

It sounds like you place rigid demands on her and don't actually have time for her and then suggest she is badly behaved or gas adhd when it leads to melt downs. Try a more flexible approach, give her autonomy and spend some quality time and many of those defiant behaviours will likely disappear.

Agree 100%

I agree with most of the posters above. Before seeking a diagnosis, I would remove all screens - No 9 year old should have a phone, ipad, social media and a tv in their room! She's over stimulated from all of this. Then do activities with her that involve her being a child and help her develop. From imaginative play to baking with you, doing craft... all the things a 9 year old girl normally does.

She may has ADHD, but also she may not. Children's behaviour change radically when they aren't exposed to so much screen time, especially if that screen time isn't monitored. Some of the stuff she might have seen online may explain her mean and violent behaviour, it's sometimes a coping mechanism.

I think one of the first things to do is go to the gp about a diagnosis. Yes children with sen can be overstimulated and this is different for each child. If she has adhd this will become harder to manage without support as she gets older. School understanding would help.

Your daughter is getting too much screen time between her phone, tablet, and TV. Her brain is hooked on the dopamine hits from all the constant stimuli. My son will be 11 in three months, and he doesn’t have a phone or a tablet. Just because other children have them at his age doesn’t mean he needs one. He does complain about it, but even he has noticed that the most unruly kids in his class tend to be the ones who have had phones the longest.

This thread is unbelievable. OP if you haven't eaten your daughter's phone and done a virtual world self cancellation on Roblox whilst smashing your head through your daughter's TV; well, you're a better person than I am.

If you can see and hear what she's doing on Roblox, leave it! I played it with my son at age 9 and still do. If she has a relationship where she tells you what's going on, that's great, you're fine. With a console system, you can play together and get more involved. Some games are slightly dodgy, you can switch any chat function off on Roblox.

The TV is a comfort, leave it. As long as you know what she can access and it's restricted, it plays a part.

The one issue is really Snapchat. It's too much to try tackle every screen and I don't think you're in a position for that with everything going on. If you could find twenty minutes to play Roblox together and talk, that's a start. There's a brilliant game ' dress to impress' on Roblox where you dress your character in clothes and accessories and get a score for it compared to other players.

The parents who have Autistic ADHD kids are the ones who understand.

If the phone accidentally got lost but you're playing Roblox together, she'll get over that loss very fast. It's not her fault but the reaction could be strong. My Autistic teen son had Snapchat and it was awful awful. You'll be best if the phone somehow disappears to address the Snapchat thing.

Do look up the different approach to parenting with Autism/PDA. Nowhere does it say you don't have boundaries or non negotiables. Figuring out what's going on, autonomy over decisions, that means giving choices, that helps first.

She will love the screens and find comfort in them with the school demands and feeling uncertain at home. Total removal really isn't a good move but I think you know that.

It's like getting told off in school again by my maths teacher when I read through this.

Just got back from the school run so will read through comments properly when I get time throughout the day.
Ended up approaching the head teacher up the school about what support they can offer me then I just ended up bursting out crying which was quite embarrassing.

A lot of comments I've quickly scrolled through seem to be suggesting that she's pushed out, have no time for her, I don't treat her like a child etc
It's really not the case, we regularly play board games, do things she likes to do at home, she goes on her trampoline a lot after school (when it's dry) we go for walks, she has 2 after school activities weekly, she does do 'kid' stuff 90% of the time, I'd say she speaks to her friends on the phone for like 30-40 mins maybe 3/4 times a week

The nails and shopping thing is a treat now and again as its her that enjoys it and she likes to spend her pocket money that way (I personally hate shopping and do not regularly get my nails done) so it's not something that we do for me, it's for her.
she has 1to1 time with me. But it's like it's never enough, she craves attention 24/7 she is never pushed out when it comes to the baby, my partner although frustrated lastnight as he was woken up to her shouting and banging until the baby woke up, is amazing with her, they have 1to1 time too and when she's in a good mood they get on great, but as soon as her mood switches he's the worst person in the world to her as am I.

You REALLY need to start the ball rolling by asking your GP to refer her for an ADHD/ASD assessment. There will almost certainly be a long waiting list, so the sooner you get going, the better.

Roblox, is incredibly popular. The game is excellent for the dopamine hit that pretty innocent games like muscle simulator provide. You have dressing up games. If you know what's going on, it's a great platform.

Fortnite, in all my experience, for some reason is the generator of rage and dysregulation.

I feel for you it's not easy. Remember she is only little and has had a lot going on changing dynamics with a new baby. How does dd feel about seeing her dad eow does he keep in regular contact ie phone calls? My 9 yo only has a phone for purpose of ex to videocall daily he doesnt use it for anything else.
Could you get her a kids alexa then she could have some music or an audio book to listen to I wouldn't be entertaining watching tv in bed if I let my 9yo do that he would be up all night..you are the adult so set boundaries that work for your family

It’s not easy parenting a neurodiverse child and shame is no use to you or your child so please try not to take the comments to heart.

It’d great you have spoken to the school- well done for taking that step.

I would really start with reading Calm Parent, Happy Child and How to talk so kids will listen. Until you and your partner learn to stay calm and self regulate you will stay in the cycle with your child. Plus, like you know yourself - any attention even if negative is oxygen/ dopamine to some ADHD children. So if she’s being rude, address it but don’t give further attention/ engagement beyond that.

I think most posters are genuinely trying to help you - but there are many different perspectives on here, some of which may work for your specific child and some that won’t. However the unecessary and judgemental comments about your family set up are uncalled for- please ignore those.

Have you tried..
Visual timetable in her room about bed time and being consistent every night
Starting bed time routine an hour early
Non screens or food for an hour before bed
Keeping the house quiet and calm at bed time
Reducing after school activities

I have two kids, one adhd and one autisitc and these are the things that have worked for us.

Take the tv out of her room. Get an Alexa for her that she can play music on at bedtime, or go old school and get a CD player and a few CD's. That means that she doesn't need her phone in her room either.

DD has never been able to sleep in the dark or fall asleep in a silent room. Now almost 17, she has recently been diagnosed with ADHD and referred for ASD. When she was little it was Peppa Pig or Spot stories on CD, then as she got older, it switched to music on the Alexa.

She also couldn't control her emotions, but as she got older she could see that she was being unreasonable (although she still couldn't stop it, she would apologise later).

9 is very young to have a mobile, although unfortunately kids do seem to be getting mobiles earlier and earlier now.

I agree that your DD is addicted to screens, which I believe would account for some of the behaviours you’ve described. You’ve seen how many people are telling you to get her off them. Sadly though many parents make excuses for allowing their DCs so much screen time - I started to list a bunch of reasons, but I’ve deleted because they can just be summarised as due to parental laziness - there, I said it.

OP, I was 8 when my little sister was born. My parents will tell you that they didn’t push me out and that they included me and made time for me. That is NOT how I experienced it in the slightest. Quite frankly it destroyed my relationship with my mother and I still think she favours my sister. It is quite simply world shattering to have a sibling appear at this point if you’ve been an only until then and it needs very careful management.

💯 this 👆🏻 ditch the screens, back to basics - chilled out activities, bath, books, bed at reasonable hour..

I have a dc with diagnosed behaviour problems and bedtime used to be a particularly difficult time.

I do agree with others that there is too much dependence on screens and she doesn’t need to be using them in her bedroom especially at age 9. Having said that, my dc was awful during story time as well.

My dc had melatonin from the age of 8 prescribed by camhs and that helped a lot.

I was also shocked at the nails and shopping sorry. Why would a 9 year old want to do that?

Does your dc do any after-school activities? I know you have a baby but can she do something active a few hours before bed? In the summer I used to take my dc out to run around for an hour before bed. If they are physically tired at bedtime they are more likely to sleep although you still have to get the routine right eg keep things calm.

I would definitely call the gp as soon as possible. Unlike in your case, my dc was even worse at school than at home so when I rang the gp with concerns about their behaviour at school at the age of 3, the gp asked to see them straight away to check there was nothing obvious going on. We got a referral to camhs which was limited in its help but like I say, we did have the melatonin.

Just seen she does two activities after school and she has a trampoline. Can she do more of that? So it’s just playing/activities and bed. I used to find no screens at all was better than say an hour.

TV in bedroom age 9?

Remove it. It's inappropriate.

Conversely I have an 8 year old who has no phone. No ipad. No tv in their room. The play Fortnite with friends but limited amount and mo behavioural issues at all. Roblox is a known issue and often comes with little to no control.

That's very interesting. I ask my son what on earth is it about Fortnite. I see it across multiple places, friends and plenty of boys who are really triggered by it. Fortunately, it's now deleted, a choice was given and what an excellent choice he made.

I personally love Riders Republic, Descenders ( great cycling and riding games), and I'm trying to find anything as funny as Dress to Impress on Roblox; fantastic.

Read the evidence. The issue is frequency rather than content for the most part.