My daughter is out of control

[VV12]

Just spent the last 3 hours battling with my 9 year old daughter to go to bed, she still isn't sleeping.
It started with the wrong pyjama's, then there was too much toothpaste on her toothbrush, then she wanted the original pyjamas, then I told her no tv in bed because of the way she was speaking to me "shut up" "do this/that now" "your so mean" "your getting on my last nerve" "stop telling me what to do"
Then a whole other meltdown began because of the no tv which has resulted in a 3 hour screaming battle because she says she can't sleep without the tv, baby was woken up by the screaming, partner woke up, everyone's frustrated/upset and now she's laying in bed as calm as anything (but still awake) while I'm downstairs in absolute tears, wanting to bang my head against the wall in frustration, baby just settled back down and partner telling me that I need to sort her behaviour out as he can't live with her anymore (he's not her dad)
I really don't know what to do anymore her behaviour is completely out of control.
I highly suspect she has some form of ADHD/ODD (it's in the family) not just from the behaviour but she just can't listen to any sort of instruction, can't keep still, talks non stop, fidgets a lot etc
I have tried speaking to the school but of course "shes an angel" in school and the teacher made me feel like the whole conversation was pointless and as if im just exaggerating and basically told me that the gp will be a waste of time as she's fine in school.
She is very good at masking her behaviour in school but every single morning is an absolute nightmare, can't get her out of bed, gives me attitude/ back chat the whole time she's getting ready, as soon as she steps foot in the car after school it's like the whole days frustration just comes pouring out of her.
Don't really know what I want out of this thread, I'm just at a loss, what the hell can I do with this behaviour?
Nothing bothers her, she don't care if I take things off her, she don't care if I shout/tell her off, she don't care if I stop her going anywhere, if I tell her to go to her room for a time out she just looks at me and says no so I physically have to pick her up and place her in her room, then she just throws herself around the room in a rage for ages, these meltdowns can last hours.
absolutely nothing works!

I would start by removing the screens.

I have a 10 year old and it’s definitely not the norm for kids in their class to have phones. I’d be removing that straight away.

Mine also don’t play Roblox, the conversation goes like this:
’mum can I play Roblox’ ‘no sorry love I don’t think it’s appropriate, maybe when you’re older’

Mine use a shared family iPad to do homework - timetable rockstars but other than that it isn’t used during the week. They may get up to about an hour at the weekend but I set an alarm to remind me they are on it. Any complaints about being told to put it away result in them not being allowed it next time they ask. Same goes for the switch.

They are also not allowed to go on YouTube (kids or otherwise). These have been our rules since they were little so there’s no ‘cycling back’ to be done.

I realise they sound like compliant little angels, obviously they have their moments but the screen time is heavily monitored.

Whilst you seem determined there’s a SEN element, you also seem quite permissive in a lot of ways and keen to blame a lot of this on SEN. Start by reducing the screens and see if there’s an improvement in behaviour.

@Christmasmorale
Not being able to watch the tv programme to fall asleep bothers her massively yes, not her phone or iPad

From someone who has always had a challenging bed time. The issue is actually you. You say you are battling with her, that accelerates this behaviour. Turn off the tv, get her in her room and leave her. She will soon get bored and go sleep ime.

You aren’t parenting here and are actively ignoring the consistent advice re the extent of screen time.

@VV12 I am going through the exact same thing at the moment with my 9 year old daughter. I have had a completely ban screens because it made her even worse. I am trying to keep her as active as possible after school so she is shattered before bedtime and is more relaxed.

I think they need one to one time with us even for 15min a day doing what they like without us giving instructions or interrupting etc,..wejust need to listen.

@Ritzybitzy I'm not ignoring any advice. I have said that I need to lower her screen time and both the phone and iPad have been taken away for last nights behaviour.
I will just answering questions regarding what she does on the phone/ipad

Jesus's christ, she is 9 years old.

No tv in her room. No phone. No ipad. No youtube.

They shouldn't be removed as a punishment, she shouldn't have any of that at all in the first place.

My son has Autism/ADHD/PDA and when he went to a friends house and had access to all this stimulating technology briefly he was an absolute nightmare for a few days afterwards. Then back to normal thankfully.

He is allowed to use my laptop under supervision for homework, and for a couple of hours on weekend evenings we play games together as a family (NOT Roblox, proven to be a predators paradise)

I tend to agree with this. I increasingly think the “adhd/pda” behaviours are a fairly normal behavioural reaction to being stressed about crappy life circumstances (your new partner, for example), and masking/regulation at school is a response to a more predictable environment that doesn’t foster poor behaviour.

It sounds like you've got this pretty sorted. Fair play! X

They need to be removed as a “mummy is very sorry I shouldn’t have ever let you have them”. Not as a punishment.

I was going to suggest ADHD (I have it) not that I'm excusing her behaviour of course! A new baby is a lot to handle for any child and definitely for one with ADHD so maybe that's a factor? Also the worst times for a girl / woman with ADHD is puberty, post natal and menopause, maybe she's approaching puberty and the hormones are impacting her ADHD behaviour too? (I was my worst post natally and thinking back I was bad around puberty too!) The only thing that worked for me was medication, I was late diagnosed and it was an absolute nightmare for me and everyone around me until that point! X

Would she find audio books helpful to fall asleep to?

I find it easier to get to sleep with something on the radio - because it stops my mind racing as I can just focus on what's being said. I like nonfiction books or podcasts because they don't usually have highs and lows of emotion.

Some good advice i need to take on board myself.

I wish I could just leave her and that she would get bored and fall asleep but unfortunately that doesn't happen, if I just put her in her room and left she would absolutely lose her shit, scream the house down, slam/kick doors, be up and down the stairs for hours on end, I tried the super nanny approach once a few years ago where you just keep putting them back/not engage she did not sleep that night, I was taking her back and forth every few minutes from 7-8pm until it was practically time to get up the next day, she was in a right state.

Permissive parenting would definitely not help ds, if anything he needs far more structure than other dc. We followed his consultants advice after he was diagnosed at 3 years old.

Our day has to be very structured, predictable and any changes foreshadowed long before they occur. I cannot give even a millimetre on what is allowed and acceptable behaviour.

We got into a routine very early on that helps him, it may seem disciplinarian from the outside, but it is actually supporting him to feel much calmer and safer.

So many red flags here.

9 years old and already has a phone, an ipad AND a TV in her room?!

That's where I'd be starting, not with ideas of neuro diversity.

A 9 year old does not need a phone. But that away straight away, she doesn't need it til end of year 6 at the earliest.

Get the TV out of the bedroom. The fact she feels she can't fall asleep without it suggests it's been a habit for a long while - I'd guess since she was about 4, when the new partner of 5 years moved in and it was easier for the happy couple for the four year old to watch telly in bed on her own in the evening while they had couple time.....

All the way this.

I'd choose my battles. My ds would only sleep if I put a dvd on for quite a few years.

Take the tv out of her room. Punish the bad behaviour.

She hasn't been able to fall asleep in silence since she was a baby, has always needed some sort of noise going on.
Find it quite rude and offensive that you would assume that when I had a new partner that I chucked her a tv so I could have time with him, 100% not the case!!

The only reason I bought her a phone in the first place is because she has been slowly starting to go to the local park with friends and I felt more comfortable knowing I would be able to keep in touch with her and know where she is at all times

I know you said no choice due to work
But 9 is to late to start bedtime . My 13 year old bedtime is 9.30 on a school day . And that lights out nothing on at all.
Maybe she was behaving badly because her routine got messed up . Then you said no tv as a punishment for her speaking to you badly.
So if she went to bed at her earlier bedtime and had her tv on very low would she have gone to sleep?
Do you have a good evening routine with her ? That helps a lot. Takes away any surprises or pressure for her.
How young is the baby? Is she jealous at all or feeling left out?
Even if she does have adhd or something . You still need to try to get a plan or routine or something in place yourself.
The only help you really get is medication and I know people love the idea it will fix things . It's also a strong drug given to very young children who's brains are yet to fully develop. So if you can go for as long as possible without it then that's better.

Also an alexa with audio books could be a good alternative to a tv .
Make sure she can't access social media . That will definitely make things worse

Completely agree with this. And you too have to model the same screen regulation - so remove TV from your own bedroom and refrain from using smartphones and watching excessive TV in front of your daughter/ give her your full attention when she talks to you. It's can't be punishment for your daughter, but a better way of doing things for the whole family.

Maybe have a family movie night that you really make fun the same time every week - something to look forward to. Blow up airbed and blankets, make popcorn together, make pizza together and let her choose her favourite toppings, projector screen etc. So screen time is a rewarding and social family activity.

If she doesn’t care that much about the phone I would honestly take it away completely for a few years. If it helps don’t make it a punishment, just as an I don’t think this is the right thing for us all as a family. She doesn’t need it at 9 and it’s just another battle to fight. They can be really toxic and I can always tell when my kids have had too much time on their iPads etc, and phones are worse.

I’d also take away the tv from her room- if she needs to fall asleep with noise I’d allow an audio book on her iPad or even a radio.

At 9 she should be doing quite a lot of bedtime on her own- my eldest has ADHD and he 100% reacts really badly to people trying to help him do things, like following him around upstairs asking if he’s brushed his teeth etc. So he does most of it himself now on his own (we wrote a list) and I just go up and say goodnight (I might also check he’s done his teeth then which he can cope with).