My daughter is out of control

[VV12]

Just spent the last 3 hours battling with my 9 year old daughter to go to bed, she still isn't sleeping.
It started with the wrong pyjama's, then there was too much toothpaste on her toothbrush, then she wanted the original pyjamas, then I told her no tv in bed because of the way she was speaking to me "shut up" "do this/that now" "your so mean" "your getting on my last nerve" "stop telling me what to do"
Then a whole other meltdown began because of the no tv which has resulted in a 3 hour screaming battle because she says she can't sleep without the tv, baby was woken up by the screaming, partner woke up, everyone's frustrated/upset and now she's laying in bed as calm as anything (but still awake) while I'm downstairs in absolute tears, wanting to bang my head against the wall in frustration, baby just settled back down and partner telling me that I need to sort her behaviour out as he can't live with her anymore (he's not her dad)
I really don't know what to do anymore her behaviour is completely out of control.
I highly suspect she has some form of ADHD/ODD (it's in the family) not just from the behaviour but she just can't listen to any sort of instruction, can't keep still, talks non stop, fidgets a lot etc
I have tried speaking to the school but of course "shes an angel" in school and the teacher made me feel like the whole conversation was pointless and as if im just exaggerating and basically told me that the gp will be a waste of time as she's fine in school.
She is very good at masking her behaviour in school but every single morning is an absolute nightmare, can't get her out of bed, gives me attitude/ back chat the whole time she's getting ready, as soon as she steps foot in the car after school it's like the whole days frustration just comes pouring out of her.
Don't really know what I want out of this thread, I'm just at a loss, what the hell can I do with this behaviour?
Nothing bothers her, she don't care if I take things off her, she don't care if I shout/tell her off, she don't care if I stop her going anywhere, if I tell her to go to her room for a time out she just looks at me and says no so I physically have to pick her up and place her in her room, then she just throws herself around the room in a rage for ages, these meltdowns can last hours.
absolutely nothing works!

The teacher doesn't see your daughter at home, though. I would take your child to a doctor or therapist as soon as possible. This sounds absolutely exhausting for the entire household. You'll all probably feel more hopeful right away when some professional assistance is brought in. Good luck with it.

My DD has ADHD and from about 10/11 our lives were turned upside down with her behaviours. Masking at school and then saving it up in her safe space at home.

Going back what I wish I was helped with was 1. Respite because it’s exhausting and relentless like walking on eggshells. The whole house was dictated by her moods. 2. Learning how to communicate in clear tones specific to ADHD. 3. CAMHS insisting on getting her diagnosed - we were pushed around CAMHS without support or diagnosis and it damaged her and us in not getting the help she needed especially at school where she really suffered with so much stimulus. My DD thrived in quieter smaller classrooms.. 4. Being kind to myself - feeling so ‘hated’ by my own child was part of her condition and looking back it was because she wasn’t getting the help she needed and blamed me. 5. And this is the one that will be harder for you - a united front becuase you and your DP have to be in it together - it’s too much for 1 person and you need to have strategies for when she has meltdowns.

So record the behaviours - dates/times/triggers - this will help with the relentless form filling, go to the GP for a CAMHS referral and talk to the school about reducing the stimulus during the day. Keep weekends and after school quiet and low stimuli until you get the support you need. Hope that helps. There’s a great board on here full of parents going through similar - you are not alone.

She's 9 years old and has access to a phone, an iPad and a TV in her room? There's your issue. That's absolute insanity.

Thank you everyone for the helpful comments, I will try some of the different approaches/ advice given.
I did reach out to a therapist last week who specialises in helping children learn technique's to help regulate emotions, might be worth me going ahead and booking a session.
I am willing to try anything that will help her feel less angry and more happy at home.

My son can be like this at bedtime. Often it's anxiety over school next day I think, and missing connection and reassurance. What I've found works is devices off early, as you've said, and then twenty minutes of play-fighting with toy swords before he goes to get ready. He's normally too cool for a lot of things but he loves pretend combat lol. I think the physical activity locates him in his body and the connection one-on-one really helps. I must have asked him 57 times last night to go to bed, he really is a good kid but sometimes he gets locked in this pattern of defiance and it's so hard for him to back down from it.

He often tries to say he's anxious enough to need screens in bed too but I know not to give in by now, just makes it worse for us. He has books (not a big reader when he's tired but Bunny vs Monkey etc, easy stuff) a music player to stream songs and a speaker, drawing materials, and his toys, some lavender oil mix dabbed on his skin and on a tissue to hold, lots of hugs. He has a Yoto but doesn't use it that much any more. Last night he was still awake at 12 when I went in to check on him but after we'd had a hug and a chat he fell back asleep in a few mins. Then 2 year old woke up 😂

I think it's an anxious age for kids who are that way inclined. They're waking up to so much in the world and when the lights get dim and the day gets quiet a lot of fears spring up.

I think a lot of posters on this thread don't get it. If you have a kid who is trying desperately to get your attention because underneath they are scared, because they feel like your attention is a scarce resource, because they need reassurance, getting tough won't work. I know, I tried. I am pretty strict with my son when I know he is trying it on but I've known him long enough to see when he is acting from a place of need or fear. Given reassurance and space to calm down he does, he is learning to manage these feelings.

When your daughter says things like ‘you are mean’ refrain from engaging. And I really mean do not engage. Nothing escalates an argument faster than repeated tit for tatting. This is often a strategy children use for attention, good or bad attention a child doesn’t mind, as long as they have either Mum or Dads attention. I agree with PP the tv is best removed from the bedroom. A bedtime routine that is religiously followed will help your daughter. Rewards/treats are kept in reserve as rewards for behaviour shown, not as a carrot for future good behaviour that may or not eventuate. Your daughter needs to feel the satisfaction and feel proud earning them.

You are the parent, consistency is the key, keep calm, keep things simple and introduce consequences for behaviours you don’t want. Easy, heck no, but at 9 yrs old your daughter needs boundaries.

You do what you think right OP but I think this is bloody awful advice. If your daughter could regulate on command she'd probably be doing it already.

@VV12 with the toothpaste like a pp said it might be a sensory thing. My DD could only use the fruit flavour tooth paste at that age - she hated the feel
/ taste of mint ones. Pj's could also be a result of that - again my daughter doesn't like the feel Of certain materials.

My daughter is waiting for assesment and I would say her behaviour at home is a reflection of that.

There are periods of being rude to me / her sister but actually it happens when she's very stressed about something. If for example she's got something coming up that day she's worried about or she is having some bad friendship times. Even her teachers at school are beginning to recognise that she's not always being rude to them but it's her frustration coming out in the only way she can.

For My DD what she needs is a cozy calming space - so her room is very cosy. LED rope lights used instead of main light, Fairy lights fluffy blankets. She has stuck photos all over the wall.

Has your DD got a weighted blanket? My DD finds that really helpful to sleep.

She is now 13 and I have accepted she is a night owl. She seems to come to life about 10pm. She has been this way since a baby. All the putting her to bed at 7 in the world could not make her go to sleep.

Hi OP a lot of these methods being described are coming from a NT place, if you believe your daughter has ADHD then what most people are suggesting will not work. It also sounds like to me she has PDA, so any threat to her autonomy is an attack on her nervous system. Have you heard of declarative language?

I believe your daughter needs to feel in control, btw we have been through all of this,

It takes time to bring a child 'down' from this state and a lot of management, I'm not saying treading on eggshells but working out what works for them. Please look at PDA Society website. An example for us re:sleep could be ok that's fine we are not sleeping, let's rest our heads. Or brushing teeth, hey I've loaded the toothbrush.

Bit by bit she will start to regulate. It's tough, really hard but start possibly looking into a diagnosis for her, find someone who understands PDA. It is a nervous system disability, good luck.

@LivingLaVidaBabyShower
Yes she has a phone, as do all the other children in her class do too it's not uncommon. As I said I should lower the screen more than I already have, depending on what activity she has on after school that day by the time she gets home she doesn't always get to use it before the downtime setting turns on so she's not on it all night every night.
I do monitor what she goes on and what she does on there.
She doesn't have 'manicured nails' 😂 now and again as a treat I take her to have her nails painted, as she enjoys having her nails painted different colours, she's not having acrylics or anything like that and it's not a weekly thing more like once every month or 2 and the polish lasts maybe a week if that.
Also her watching tv in bed usually means she is actually sleeping within 20-30 mins of going to bed then it's tuned off, it's not blaring through the night she's just adamant that the tv helps her sleep.

I do feel very sorry for you. You have had some good advice.
I would just say that my children have reduced considerably my grandchildren’s screen time and it has had some very positive results. They are generally not allowed screens during the week. Their behaviour has improved their concentration is much better. I don’t think any child should have a screen in their bedroom.

Screens can often help children with PDA regulate @VV12 it's not a bad thing. Please look into PDA and you'll see a lot of things click and you can then lean into your daughter's actions with more understanding.

Your daughter would probably fall asleep either reading a story or being read to.

Thank you, I will look in to this as it's not something I've heard of before.
Reading stories in bed seems to get her hyped up or annoyed, she starts off enjoying it but then she just gets restless by the end of it. She is the calmest in bed when she has the tv on in the background. She has the same programme and same episode on every single night that she's seen a thousand times but seems to just calm her enough to fall asleep.

I’m trying to understand why a 9 year old has a phone, an iPad and a tv. All of that screen time wlll absolutely be having an impact.

There is regulation and there is overkill. This is overkill at 9.

This.
Im not saying her behaviour is purely due to screens and she possibly does have a condition that requires expert help. But please do yourself and your 9 NINE !!! year old a favour and remove these screens permanently.

she can have an iPad for 1 hour to watch something.

my son has special needs including ADHD and PDA so I really sympathise, these behaviours are so very difficult to deal with. Please keep strong and look for the help you deserve.

Reading stories just gets her hyped up and annoyed unfortunately as she just finds it boring

She will find it boring because there’s too much screen time.

what does she need or do on the phone because that’s more than screen time? If she’s got any kind of social media you’re in for a world of trouble.

It isn’t ’just how it is’ for a 9 year old to have a phone though!

I would go to your GP regardless of what her teacher says.

@LivingLaVidaBabyShower I have noticed that people are so quick to label bad behaviour in children as ADHD, autism etc. The fact is some children just like to act badly especially when they know they can get away with it

@Ritzybitzy
She's usually just playing Roblox with her school friends on iPad while talking to them all on a group text/call on her phone.
Most of her friends have Snapchat but I have not allowed her to have it.

I should have added I have an autistic 9 year old and a 7 year old going through the diagnosis process for ADHD who also holds it together in school.
Disrespect or meanness is never acceptable.
And it’s definitely not a thing where we are for 9 year olds to have phones. I mean, what on earth would they want them for.
They sometimes borrow ours for ‘the colouring game’ or ‘the number game’ but they don’t have their own and won’t for a while yet.
That much screen exposure will not be good for any 9 year old. Although the 7 year old sometimes uses her Alexa to play ‘sleepy music’ to help her go to sleep.
You need to find ways to calm the environment down and reduce sensory stimulation as much as possible. Good luck.

Nope. This is dangerous and way off.