Baby Led Parenting

[Rhubarb]

Yup. The baby is the boss and they will tell you what to do. You feed them when they cry, they'll sleep when they want, do what they want when they want to do it. If you want to experience true, pure and natural parenting then this is what you do.

No mention of the African tribes who tie crying babies to trees to discourage them from crying and giving their location away to enemy tribes. No mention of feeding on demand in Ethopia because you don't have enough milk to sustain a baby for 4 hourly feeds. No mention of carrying the baby on you at all times because there are no prams and therefore not a lot else to do. Noooooo, these third world mothers really know how to bring up baby naturally and that is the way forward!

It's all bollocks isn't it?

Thats all very lovely , but the fact you say 'I'm a fashion designer from a previous life' speaks volumes.
I would hate to have given up my identity upon becoming a mother to the extent I call it a 'previous life'

It's just a turn of phrase, surely? I say "previous life" and did before I had a baby...I was skinny in a previous life too.

Not sure tinksmum was implying she'd relinquished her identity - not how I interpreted it anyway!

I gave up fashion years before I had my babies for reasons unrelated to starting a family. I may not work in the industry anymore but I still sew, I've actually been trying to start up a group to make clothes for Angel Babies.

My previous life included different people and settings that I don't want to revisit. I left that over 2 1/2 years before Tink was born and was out of the studio even longer before that. I have previous lives as a makeup artist and a party planner, all long before Tink.

My life now is not that different to it was before she was born. I see my friends regularly, they all come over here now but some of us still meet up at the pub for tea. I still go out with my partner, still trained for a new career that better suits me now, still a member of St John as I have been for the last 15 years, Bible study, working to set up a residents association on my estate. I think I'm doing more now than I was before!

Thank you VLC

But now you are 'tinkerbellesmum'

wtf?

I love my children, i would do anything for them but i don't give up my identity.

It's an ID I use to log into a forum!

I don't climb on the back of an ambulance with a badge saying "Tinkerbelle's Mum" on it, it's not on my ID badge for work, it's not what my friends call me! I'm not known by it at church or the pub. I'm not working under that ID to set up an RA on the estate - can you imagine me going around to local businesses "Hi, I'm Tinkerbelle's Mum and I'm representing the Resident's Association for XYZ Estate..."?!

I have an identity separate from being a mum, but on a parenting forum I chose to use that nickname because I was proud of having my daughter after everything I've been through to get her here. Where, in the list of my activities, did I give the impression I gave up my identity?

"My life now is not that different to it was before she was born. I see my friends regularly, they all come over here now but some of us still meet up at the pub for tea. I still go out with my partner, still trained for a new career that better suits me now, still a member of St John as I have been for the last 15 years, Bible study, working to set up a residents association on my estate. I think I'm doing more now than I was before!"

lol at you all

this is the book you want

Tinksmum, I love how you have raised your child and I find many parallels with my own child rearing, I used cloth nappies, weaned when I chose and not when a HV told me to, but my children thrived on routine, now that is not to say that my way is best or yours for that matter but that no one method is better than the others, i think what rhubarb and I have been trying to say is that BLW/BLP is another method used to belittle vulnerable mums.

I love that you said you make decsions on what suited her, but that isnt necessarily baby led parenting, I make the decisions on what I think is best for my kids not for me, and they are not always treated the same as each other, but I do feel you have to say who is in charge and that there is a real world that has to be adapted to.

I am very much within the world I make for her led by Tink. You would ask an older "do you want an apple or a pear?" and that's what I do with Tink. She doesn't know there is a bigger world than the choices open to her, but she's finding her own way around it with me to guard her.

I'm not sure who this "Guru" is who is being prescriptive in AP/ CC/ BLP etc ways that's upset Rhubarb so much. The only strict, prescriptive "gurus" are people like GF and CV. I certainly didn't need a guru to do what I'm doing, it was just how it happened.

Gill Rapley has been too busy with her own work to spend all her time promoting BLW, she's not making the money off the back of it, unlike AK, GF or CV. For me that was one of her good qualities, she wasn't saying this was a good thing to make money, but because it was something she was interested in.

It's worth pointing out that she is one of the only people to do a study on how to wean and the only one to do a how and when. So all these people who are making money out of mothers are spouting their opinion with no real backing.

Tink has a routine, she is flexible enough to not follow it if circumstances change, but she does like her routine. But it's one she found for herself. I feel by letting her make her routine and always being flexible with her it gives us more of a life than following something like CV would because she doesn't mind if we're late doing something or fall out of routine.

Ah, but there is a parenting book that gives really quite decent advice
without saying 'my way or the highway'. It's called 'What mothers do'.

Of course, one could criticise 'What mothers do' for being maddeningly wishy-washy
and afraid of its own convictions.
But that's the thing with parenting, there is such an infinite variety of parent/child
combinations that no single parenting book will ever have all the answers.

To a new mum (and dad) I would recommend reading a few hippie books (e.g. 'What mothers do', 'Why Love matters')
and a few routine books (e.g. Ford, Baby Whisperer).
That way you get a good spread of all the opinions out there and, more importantly, realise
that they are just that: opinions!

i think aitch makes a fine point (well, several actually but this one will do;) that feelings of persecution and inadequacy come from within. and someone else said ; if you feel that way, the book is not the cause but a nice outside thing to blame.

rhubarb, youve been dictatorial, contradictory and vague. youre moving goalposts every time you post! and you seem unable to comprehend that the issues you raise about feelings of inadequacy may have any source other than a few people saying 'hey, heres a way to do it'.

Slightly off topic: TInkerbelle'sMum - your daughter is gorgeous

So many pressures from many different sources - like others have said, from books, parents, in-laws... that has certainly been my experience! I find that just because you don't want to fail your children you are susceptible to guilt in any case to varying degrees.

IMO though, I do find it strange that we worry about letting babies "dictate" to us but seemingly ok throw just about any material goods such as iPods/PSPs/designer clothes at older children...

lol at 'off topic'

the whole farkin thread is off topic

I think I might have done baby led parenting, but mostly because it offered the path of least resistance and I am quite lazy.

I have friends who prefer to structure their day and do feeds at intervals etc. The only downside they seem to have incurred is that their milk production dropped as your body just isn't set up for that (this isn't a comment on whether they should have breastfed or not, it is a statement of fact). So they switched to formula. Who cares!

I did what worked for me (and for the next baby something else might work so I will do that) and they did what worked for them. Why do women compete over this stuff? As long as the kids turn out OK who cares how you get there?

Would like to mention though that I felt pressured to NOT breastfeed/co-sleep and all the rest of it.

The only parenting book I read was "Kid Wrangling" by Kaz Cooke (we are Australian) she pretty much sets out all the different options that people like to take and then says but you should do what's best for you and YOUR baby.

what gurus are there in attachment parenting? what books? i've never seen them marketed (unlike GF etc). that's why this rant of rhubarb's seems so weird, imo, she's started it about the wrong people it would seem. most people who do 'attachment parenting' find out after they're doing it that 'oh, there's a name for me using a sling, is there?'

and i don't really know what TM did to deserve that, DWP... it's just a name. my first name on here had my year of birth, not because i am obsessed with the 70s but because, well, i couldn't think of anything else at the time and wanted to post a question.

I can't follow this - I don't understand.
The OP is an attack on attachment parenting and following the babies lead, but then later on it becomes an attack on any guru who gives a framework or structure or imposes anything. So you can't follow the baby, you can't follow a 'way' of doing it?

So what is left? What are you supposed to do?

I'd say follow instinct. In my case that was pretty baby led.

I don't get it.

Interesting about previous lives.

I definitely have previous lives.

1. Previous life before children

2. Previous life with a baby- in boabyworld and babyland

3. and my now life - with severe autism.

They're my previous lives, not because I've lost identity but because each one has had a massive impact on me and changed me. I still go to the pub, do my own thing, but the difference between me in life 3 and me in life 2 or even 1 is enormous (bigger difference between 2 and 3 though).

On a different note, have just started to read The Challenging Child- which I think is going to be a great read for those who find themselves flicking through 'the highly sensitive child' (book I'm a bit dubious about tbh) or 'the out of sych child'.

These books can be useful if you take the bits that apply, try them out then pick and choose the bits that work.

I have previous lives before children too, I've not lost my identity but it's certainly changed. I had the life when I had some money and spent it on clothes and shoes and going out. It's a totally different life there's no doubt. I miss some things about it but mostly to do with time and things - and now I have less time and less money but my life is much richer in other ways.

My OP was an attack of gurus who spout about baby-led parenting. Sorry if I did not make that clear. I then went on to criticise parenting books and gurus in general because this is a democracy and I think I am free to criticise who I like.

I have taken on board other peoples views and answered them, for instance giving links to websites when asked and quoting gurus, when asked.

The fact that some people have come on to this thread, stated that it was worthless, questioned my personal circumstances and refused to debate speaks more about them than it does about me.

I feel as though I have been very polite. I said I was ranting, I said what I was ranting against, I raised what I still think are valid points:

Parenting books and parenting gurus are not just advisers - they are learned people, so-called experts, who do peddle their advice as being the best way to things and they do make claims without producing any evidence.

First time mums are generally vulnerable and susceptible and I still believe that these gurus (who are on the television, radio, in newspaper articles and on every book shelf) are responsible for putting yet more pressure upon mums to get it right.

I'm very pleased that some of you were able to manage your baby first time round without ever having to turn to a book for advice and then feeling like shit when it goes wrong. But not all of us were like that. I was a complete wreck as a first time mum!

I quoted a website that did go on about 'natural' parenting, that did use 'African tribes' as examples and what our ancestors did - which all relates to my OP. That 'natural' is being peddled as best and possibly the only right way to go about things, when that is not necessarily so and a lot of their examples are out of context.

Now if you don't like what I'm saying on this thread, then disagree by all means, but don't try and undermine my posts by getting all personal. That is neither nice nor necessary and I don't feel as though I've done anything to deserve that.

dunno, rhubarb, just because you were a wreck i don't think it's fair to extrapolate that the majority are and then go on to damn everyone who ever wrote a book or article.

it can be hard with a new baby and a lot of women seem to find the literature very interesting and often comforting, from what i've seen. what is your alternative, that's what i'm not getting... no books? no mentioning of gentle historical methods without an equal and opposite ghastly historical example? no MN, in case we say something that might upset someone who's feeling vulnerable?

seems to me that because you found it tough as a new mum, you assume a lot. whereas those of us who didn't find it so aren't allowed to extrapolate from our experiences.

and yes, before you repeat your point about questions on here often being from panicky new mums (more often thrown into panic by their HVs and mothers than by a parenting book, imo) they do post on here. but that's to exclude those of us who didn't post because we were doing okay.

If you're doing ok then that's great! But many other mums don't. Those of you who have coped fine have posted on here to say so, and at no point did I ask you not to. In fact I enjoy reading other people's experiences and opinions.

My own solution to the problem would be to force the parenting books to have a paragraphy at the front that stated that everything contained within the book was opinion only, that every baby was different, and if your baby didn't fit in well with that particular book, to try a different one.

I would like to see an unbiased, all-round parenting book that covers routine-based parenting AND so-called natural parenting and explain how you can get the best by incorporating a little bit of both methods.

You might think this is all common-sense, but when you do have pnd, common-sense seems to have gone with your sex-life. You can't think straight, an off-hand comment from a stranger can have you in tears, you panic if the baby breathes in a different way - you are emotionally vulnerable and I do think that parenting gurus exploit that vulnerability.

I do not damn everyone who ever wrote a book or article - blimey I had a website, was in various magazines and did a radio interview myself! Not on parenting however. But I do think they should be more responsible about what they say and how they say it. Because whatever I've read always seems to be quite forceful "if you do this, this and this then by this time, this, this and this should happen" and quite scaremongering "babies who are weaned on pureed food are more likely to develop eating disorders when older" (my own quotes).

A happy medium would be great. And more mums should be reassured that mistakes are fine, nothing is written in stone, they are not doing it all wrong and just because such and suchabody breastfeed until their child was 4, does not mean to say you have to do that or you're a failure somehow.

Although I've said all of that earlier on in this thread Aitch. All the points I just made there I made earlier. I haven't said no-one should be allowed an opinion on the best way to parent a child - I just think it's done to death these days. The media have exhausted it and we are none the better for it. No one method is totally right and no one method is totally wrong.

It's about time someone brought out a book siding with the parents.

that, for the second time now, is a quote from a quote, it's not fair of you to keep using it. you're letting someone else interpret what someone's said and using it as gospel.

plus, of all the gurus to choose, Gill Rapley's the least prescriptive i've seen tbh, she puree-fed all her kids and they don't so far as i'm aware have eating disorders.

and afaik, the books i flicked through did all say that all babies were different etc, and none of them suggested that your child would become a sociopath if you veered from the strategy.

and this 'failure' thing. well, show me a book that says if you don't do x, y or z you'll be a failure as a parent. i doubt it exists. that women with poor self-esteem or PND might interpret it that way hardly means that the books shouldn't be out there at all, it means that the HCPs around the woman with PND are failing to help her and the woman with poor self-esteem has... poor self-esteem.

"It's about time someone brought out a book siding with the parents."

nice sentiment. what does it actually mean?