Baby Led Parenting

[Rhubarb]

Yup. The baby is the boss and they will tell you what to do. You feed them when they cry, they'll sleep when they want, do what they want when they want to do it. If you want to experience true, pure and natural parenting then this is what you do.

No mention of the African tribes who tie crying babies to trees to discourage them from crying and giving their location away to enemy tribes. No mention of feeding on demand in Ethopia because you don't have enough milk to sustain a baby for 4 hourly feeds. No mention of carrying the baby on you at all times because there are no prams and therefore not a lot else to do. Noooooo, these third world mothers really know how to bring up baby naturally and that is the way forward!

It's all bollocks isn't it?

I think rhubarb's got a point. It's the same reason Tania Byron's stopped making parenting programmes - because she think there are too many people out there telling you what to do. I read a few books at the beginning and I honestly did think if I didn't do A and then B, my baby would never sleep/be happy/breastfeed properly. I don't think many of them say 'this is just my opinion' either. And there are AP gurus - Jean Liedloff for one.

have you read the jean liedloff book? yurt has, see below for the facts of what is said.

No, I have to confess I haven't. But I have had her quoted at me at great length by someone I know who thinks the way they parent is Right and everyone else is Wrong

aye, well, that's something poor old Jean can't legislate for.

"You might think this is all common-sense, but when you do have pnd, common-sense seems to have gone with your sex-life. You can't think straight, an off-hand comment from a stranger can have you in tears, you panic if the baby breathes in a different way - you are emotionally vulnerable and I do think that parenting gurus exploit that vulnerability."

Rhubarb, I was so ill with PND they called the team from the next hospital to come and see me while I was still in hospital. They even restricted my pain meds because of it! (I'm still angry about that!)

My sex life hasn't gone out the window and neither has my common sense! I am quite able to and have stood up for myself to a stranger and the only time I've let a stranger leave me in tears is when they've said something nice!

I know a lot of women who have PND (from the hospital and I'm a TAB Coordinator)and I know many who would say the same. I just met with a woman today who said "we shouldn't say PND, we should say Sally's PND because no two people experience mental illness the same". I am not saying that wasn't true for you, but it's not true for all of us, PND affects different people in different ways.

So I would ask you to kindly not tie us all with the same brush.

Going back to the "past life", as I'm making a sharing post! I was working in a studio when I was 18, I became head girl and walked out because I wasn't happy with the way people were treated there and as head girl I felt I had to make a stand. I haven't been in fashion since I was 21. I don't like the attitudes in fashion.

I have a past life which includes a previous abusive relationship. It included people, places and jobs I don't want to go back to. After I split up with my ex, it was another year before I met TD and nearly two years before I had Tink. All that stuff was well in the past where it belongs.

I am old enough to have past lives that finished well before Tink came along.

Thanks Geeky and Aitch.

I have only really encountered BLW on Mumsnet. Apart from one article in the NCT magazine, an article in the Telegraph and an item on Woman's Hour (the last two only found because of links on MN), I have never come across it in RL. I am certainly under the impression that none of my RL friends have ever heard of it. I know the childcare sections at my local bookshops pretty well, and I have never found a book on BLW. Gill Rapley may be well known in MN BLW circles, but I bet there are regions of MN where she is completely unknown.

Until very recently it was assumed that there was no alternative to puree feeding. I don't think that suggesting an alternative and proposing some reasons why it seems to work well is that bad.

To be honest I would pulp many parenting books as I think they are a complete load of tosh, but Gill Rapley just did some research and discussed it with a few people. She hasn't written a best seller, she isn't on TV.

So who is saying ""babies who are weaned on pureed food are more likely to develop eating disorders when older"?

This thread has 179 messages and so far I haven't seen a single actual direct verifiable quote from anyone to back up the assertion that people are scaremongering.

Ok then, Gina Ford, who has smug example throughout her book of parents who have done it all wrong and needed her method to steer them through. And if you follow her methods your baby "should" be sleeping through from 3 months, if it isn't then you're doing something wrong.

A parenting book for parents would entail praising parents, raising their morale, letting them know that everyone panics to some extent with a new baby, that they are not alone, that making mistakes is ok, that no baby "should" be doing anything particular at any particular age, that breast may be best but it's it not for you then don't beat yourself up about it, that it's fine for the baby to sleep with you and your partner if you wish, but you're not a heartless monster if you want it in a cot in a separate room from 3 months!

It's all very well to focus on the baby all the time, but as you yourself know, if parents feel under pressure, and depressed, and failures then they aren't able to be the best for the baby are they? Care for the parents to enable them to care for their baby.

I kinda feel as though I'm going round in circles here. Did I not make all this clear earlier on?

Thanks spicemonster for your contribution.

"She considers that many childhood feeding problems stem from a child's unwillingness or inability to accept foods which require chewing, and that these problems become apparent when babies move from purées to "second-stage" foods which contain lumps." quoted earlier from Gill Rapley.

Tink, thanks for sharing your experience. But I also know of women who have had pnd, I had a website all about it, and many of them were left unable to stand up for themselves or make a single decision. Of course not everyone will experience this. My point is that I think (that is, my own personal opinion devoid of fact), that parenting books, TV shows, articles etc put a huge pressure on new mums to be perfect and have everything sorted by 3 months. This pressure I believe to be a contributory factor, not a direct cause note, but a factor.

Oh and I didn't say people are scaremongering. I actually said that the parenting books I have come across, or articles I have read, can be quite scaremongering in their tone.

Please do not twist my words to undermine my argument once more. I am honestly not trying to create this huge ugly argument. I made a few points about parenting books/gurus and baby-led parenting. If this winds you up so much then click on another thread where you can be agreed with.

I'm sure there's a place for that Rhubarb.

But I also think that people tend to read books that are already in line with the way their parenting is going.

Before I had dd1 I had no idea at all - never even held a newborn, general terror. I bought Gina Ford and 3 in bed. Complete opposite ends of the spectrum. Only after dd was born could I position myself and how I felt, reject the gina way as I didn't like it, take the bits from 3 in a bed that suited me and go with that.

I suppose most people do realise that there are many ways of doing things and that none of it is set in stone and really it's about what works for you. As you say, common sense - and it's people who are vulnerable who could be most upset and confused by following a set of ideas that doesn't work for them. And I guess that's where support comes in, from friends and family and mn, books are very limited in what they can do, most people in that position are probably too frazzled to take much on board from books and gurus and just need some encouragement and someone to be nice to them.

Saying that babies used to purees can struggle with lumpy food doesn't sound very scary to me - I don't see that saying this is going to terrify and undermine new parents tbh.

True Boco. But it seems on Mumsnet at least, that a lot of new mums are frightened, or anxious or worried about comments their Health Visitors have said. Such as one Mumsnetter who posted that her sister-in-law was now weaning her 8 week old and giving it rusks in it's milk because the HV said it was overweight. I think that's it? It just goes to show what a lot of faith we put in people's advice, especially if they are health professionals.

Even if our common sense tells us one thing, some so-called expert can come along and make us doubt that.

It would be nice if parents got a wee bit more support. Right now I don't think they get that support at all.

"Saying that babies used to purees can struggle with lumpy food doesn't sound very scary to me - I don't see that saying this is going to terrify and undermine new parents tbh." This is also not what I said.

The quote was to illustrate how opinions can be made almost to seem like fact. That this statement from an expert in her field, can have the power to worry a new mum who reads that. She is almost making a link from pureed food to eating disorders and she must know that this will worry a lot of mums because obesity has been in the media a lot these days.

I found it irresponsible. You may of course, disagree.

That's what's good about mn though.
My hv in London told me to wean at 3 months due to slow weight gain. I googled, read a book by la leche league, decided to ignore. I see your point, lots of people feel pressured into things they might not want to do, but what is that down to and what could change it? That example is down to training of hvs isn't it?

There are good sites, there are good books, there is information out there. My current hv is great and I think she gives good support that I trust. A lot of my decisions are down to me talking things through with friends with babies - or mn, or reading.

I am not disagreeing with you. Support is great, it's what's needed, - but what are you thinking of, where from?

I do disagree, rhubarb, and I think it's interesting that we're reading that statement so differently. For example, I don't make any link between struggling with lumps and eating disorders or obesity.

I read the statement quite literally to mean that a baby who's only used to purees might take longer to get used to lumpy food than one who's had a variety of textures from the off. ie, not a huge problem, no implications for later life, but something it would be good to avoid.

Well take the television for example, 'House of Tiny Horrors' was it? All these super nannies telling parents how they'd done it all wrong and what to do to put it right. Open up a newspaper and you'll find a picture of some celeb who marvels about the joys of parenthood, who's lost all her baby weight and who is planning to write a parenting book of her own (Myleen Klass comes to mind). Then look at all the articles written on how to have the most contented baby, how to raise a child the natural way, how routine is best, how to discipline a toddler, how to listen to your toddler, etc etc. All of these things serve to criticise the parents and focus only on the welfare of the child. When have you seen anything that praises the parents, that acknowledges the hard work that children are, that focuses on the care the parents need themselves?

That is my essential point. Enough of the baby-led parenting. Someone needs to take care of the parents.

I agree absolutely that we all need support - and usually more support than we get - but that's quite tricky to generalise about because there are lots of different ways of supporting people and no one thing will work for everyone.

For example, it's not always in someone's best interests to say "Just do whatever you want to, whatever you do is right". Someone who's desperate to breastfeed might be doing something that could harm their supply, say. In which case, a much kinder rsponse would be to talk to them about why they might harm their supply and how they might do it differently in order to keep breastfeeding.

welliemum, fair enough, but she did mention "childhood feeding problems" and from whence she thinks these stem. Children can have feeding problems due to a whole range of things and I just thought that was an ill-informed statement to make, just to push the benefits of blw.

that is NOT a statement, rhubarb, it's an interpretation of something Gill Rapley may or may not have said by the same babycentre journalist who also proposed through the BC HV that mashing was perhaps the best way to start BLW. and that's the third time i've told you that.

Again you are right welliemum. But I think we are oversaturated with parenting programmes, articles and books and instead of helping, they are confusing. Each trying to outdo the other, you'll never find two parenting methods at opposite ends of the spectrum, conceding that the other might have a point. It's either their way or not at all.

Overkill. If the likes of Myleen Klass can produce a parenting book then surely things have gone too far? Instead, how about programmes praising the efforts of parents? Governments should be putting more parenting courses in place and making them free and accessible to all. More support should be in place for new mums and the media should be more realistic when doing articles about celebrity mums.

If you don't think the media has that much influence, you only have to look at the upsurge of anorexia and what the young girls blame it on. Worryingly are the now increasing numbers of pregnant mums on diets.

Of all the women I know with PND IRL I don't know any who would state a book as a cause. I've spoken in length at many women f2f about what they've been through. Women who lost many babies trying for the one they have and struggle to get through because of it, women from abusive relationships, women who's partner left because they got pregnant, women who are just prone to mental health problems.

They're stories vary, their symptoms vary, their meds vary. But I've never met one who would blame a book.

If a woman is in a place that a book has that big an impact on her life then there was something more going on in the first place anyway. I don't believe that everyone is as honest on a forum as they are in the right setting to talk about their experiences.

Aitch, it is a quote from Gill Rapley, she does actually claim that. But nevertheless, no matter who said it, the point is that this is what they are saying.

Tink, again I have not said that pnd is directly linked to parenting books. Not once. I said that I believe (my opinion) that the media's reporting of parenthood is a contributory factor in pnd.

Suedonim I think it was, who does in fact blame a certain GF book for her pnd. Before you rubbish that you might want to consider her feelings if she were to come on here. Forgive me suedonim if I'm wrong but I think it was you I had a chat with about this a long time ago now.

But something like House of tiny tearaways or whatever it was called, I watched a few and actually, what it ALWAYS came down to, whatever the issue with the children, it always stemmed from the parents being unhappy in some way and needing some support - they were usually depressed or anxious or struggling with some issue, and the Tanya lady talked and counseled and encouraged them to get help to feel better in order to be able to tackle the issues with their children.