Baby Led Parenting

[Rhubarb]

Yup. The baby is the boss and they will tell you what to do. You feed them when they cry, they'll sleep when they want, do what they want when they want to do it. If you want to experience true, pure and natural parenting then this is what you do.

No mention of the African tribes who tie crying babies to trees to discourage them from crying and giving their location away to enemy tribes. No mention of feeding on demand in Ethopia because you don't have enough milk to sustain a baby for 4 hourly feeds. No mention of carrying the baby on you at all times because there are no prams and therefore not a lot else to do. Noooooo, these third world mothers really know how to bring up baby naturally and that is the way forward!

It's all bollocks isn't it?

No, lazycow I was answering Rhubarb's:

"But there are those who cannot breastfeed for whatever reason, and those who give up early on because they want to be able to go out and live a little - like I did. We shouldn't make them feel guilty for wanting something else should we?"

I totally agree it's not for everyone, but I think the ideas behind it should be encouraged more. I don't think it should just be expected that you're going to wean totally at 6 months, go back to work, go for nights out etc. I have been made to feel guilty and like a wierdo because I don't do these things. I'm happy sitting cross legged in my yurt (joke !) with my babyn and my hubby for the evening. However I am 40 and had pretty much partied myself out.

One of Dr Sears tenets is "if you resent it, change it" i.e. adapt things to your particular family. I think part of my problem with the mainstream is that I hear so many people moaning about the whole parenthood thing and that way of doing it seems like twice the work to me. It's got to be more difficult having a special area for the baby where everything has to be kept, and keeping to some prescribed routine rather than just chilling out and letting the baby fit in with the family. Hasn't it ? I just don't understand it I guess. I can't really think of one thing I really want to do that I can't any more, except for embroidery which will keep till he's old enough to amuse himself

We did find the first 6 months incrediibly hard, but I'm really glad now that I stuck to my guns and did things our way in the face of opposition from just about every quarter. I'm really proud of the three of us for getting through as a family. Everything seems to just fall into place these days and I really feel like I'm doing the best for our son.

sitdownpleasegeorge I don't know how to answer that, I'm pretty

Are you saying that AP is all bad, shouldn't do any of it, modern all the way?

Sorry I totally disagree with you.

We have a right to bring our children up as we see fit and I choose a more relaxed route.

I can't think of what to say, I've been left pretty speechless.

The trouble is that whenever you read a book you come to it with your own prejudices, background, experiences and so on and that alone can colour how you perceive what is written, let alone being a hormonal new mum.

I read The Baby Book by Dr Sears after visiting MN for the very first time and hearing good things about it and felt really relaxed about what he had to say and the tone in which he wrote it - iirc one of the 'B' of AP is "Boundaries" - you do what is the best possible compromise for the baby, you and the family as a whole. That really resounded in me. I also read CLBB when DD was born and I was shell shocked and a bit scared that by well meaning but misguided advice I got from family that I could "spoil" my baby and that I shouldn't let her fall asleep on me. When I tried to get her into the routine, I felt really bad when that didn't work; perhaps it was that I perceived her tone to be a bit matronly and I didn't feel empowered. I do acknowledge that many people love her methodology, though I don't know of any in RL. For my family a more APish approach works.

I only got to go to 3 antenatal classes (couldn't afford NCT) and these focused on the labour, birth and a tiny bit on breast and bottle feeding. IMO a well rounded look on parenting philosophies would have been v useful.

Can I just say a huge thankyou to those of you who have contributed and not ridiculed my OP or undermined my arguments, it is very much appreciated! Nice to know that there are some people out there who do understand what I'm going on about and are willing to post constructively.

That we all have differing experiences of parenthood is great. However Lazycow does put my thoughts into words much more eloquently than I have.

I have said that it's fine to follow whatever method suits you - I applaud that in fact! What I am against is these guru's and books shoving their own particular methods down your throat. There is no compromise with them, it's their method or not at all.

I'm shocked that Snippety got such opposition from people in trying to do what she felt was best. That really does annoy me, people thinking they know better. Glad to hear you stuck to your guns! It's sad that no matter what you do as a parent, it's never enough for some people is it?

If you look on Amazon, you can find a parenting book supporting virtually any crackpot theory - many books on Amazon are self published and many books on Amazon aren't widely available in UK bookshops. I think most people wander into WHSmith's, buy Gina Ford/Annabel Karmel/Babywhisperer and leave it at that. Is anybody really buying the Myleen Klass book? Regarding AP, I would struggle to find a book on AP in my local bookshop.

Now, I admit to having a very bad Amazon habit, but I know that most people parent without any parenting book at all. Perhaps one of the down sides of MN is that some of us overthink these things?

Oh I dunno about that. I was visiting a friend whose missus had given birth 3 months ago. On their bookshelf were stacks of books on parenting, babyhood, pregnancy, and even some kind of medical book of childhood illnesses. They appeared to be very laid back and said they just followed their own instincts, but their bookshelf told a different story.

at last post.

PMSL

sorry actually misread thread and thought this was last post:

By Rhubarb on Wed 07-May-08 23:44:26
(I do think I have tried to make my points very clear, I apologise if I have failed, I don't really see how much clearer I can make them though! Happy to take on criticisms however, these are only my opinions and other people are totally allowed theirs, so long as we respect each others)

I'm pretty grateful for the occasional parenting book.

It has enabled me to retrospectively justify the accidental, chaotic and random acts of mothering I've found myself executing over the last 9 months and call them by a name. I can even pretend it was all deliberate and a Good Idea.

I think I'm a bit lentil weavery AP-ish, as it happens. But I did not see that coming, TBH.

I've lived in Africa and I must say, it is striking how calm most carried babies are in comparison to babies here. I do believe that is in no small part down to babywearing.

Just a little observation.

I don't mind the 'childcare experts' in general. At least the fact that they're in it for the money is pretty transparent.

What I can't stand is the pseudo intellectual posturing that goes on here by the breastfeeding gurus and the like. I've read posts on these boards where people have been urged to keep breastfeeding under the most appalling, unendurable circumstances (pain, infections, weeks of sleeplessness, starving, malnurished infants who scream all day) and against the orders of doctors and health visitors (who apparently know nothing) because formula feeding carries 'risks'. Faced with the alternative, I'd take me chances, but thanks anyway for the pearls of wisdom.

Then there's the childcare gurus. One such pill, a self-proclaimed 'childcare and parenting adviser'(?!!!), argued with me once that it was perfectly acceptable for a 4 year old to hurl a toy train across a nursery with enough force to break a window because that's what 4 year olds do. Bad luck then if your child's skull is fractured by a flying brick. All part of being 4.

Some of the advice on here is good. Some of it is pretentious crap and some of it is frankly dangerous. On balance, probably best to stick to the experts.

I don't think that AP itself is the problem. It works for some (or at least they say it does), and the opposite methods work for others.
The problem I have - and I reckon you would agree, Rhubarb - is with those who make you feel like utter shite because your baby has cried herself to sleep in her pushchair rather than being attached to you kangaroo style. Or because you moved your baby into her room aged 3 months. Bobbysmum is right - it's pseudo intellectual posturing; crap invariably spouted by middle class, comfortably-off self-proclaimed experts. A far cry from the women of the developing world.
I know a woman who has her baby attached to her all the time. Fine, whatever, her life. But when she gets all preachy about her children's emotional maturity and blah blah blah that's when I have a problem with her.
I love all the attachment parent philosophy. I'm lucky in that I found breastfeeding a delight (and I'm too lazy to sterilize etc), so it suits me. I 'wore' my firstborn - around the house, out for walks - I loved it, so did he, but I didn't wear my second born - it wasn't practical with a toddler and she soon learned to sleep in a pushchair in the corner of toddler group. I love the idea of us all sleeping in a huge, family bed, but I found babies too noisy and wriggly to sleep with and I quite like having my husband to myself, so children have their own beds.
If anyone's going to say that parents should do anything, surely it would be that they should follow their instincts and do whatever works best for them and their children?

Im an AP'er as much as it works for us - we cosleep, breastfeed (15mo now) use a sling
when its a short walk! Started with finger foods etc, and ive never left ds to cry at all. It sometimes feels difficult and that i never get a moment to myself, but i would be incapable of acting any other way. Tried ec'ing but i now have a carpet that's swimming in poo and a Bissell on order! I suppose everyone does as best they can - but Rhubarb, you cant just say its bollocks can you! Lots of people do it and are happy with it!
hey snippety! Hows the Elimination Communication going? he he he

From what I have gathered rhubarb hasnt been saying anything about how you choose to raise your child it is more about how these choices are then used to intimidate new mums, thats what I have read from her posts and I agree. My parenting style is very liberal in some ways, but I dont want to preach to others partly because who the hell says my way was even right for my kids never mind anoyone elses.

Thanks clueless. Don't worry, I think some people obviously have a thing against me and that's fine. I'm not rising to it.

Clueless - I agree that there is no "right" way to parent.

However, I believe the original post, was actually implying that it is rediculous to let your baby tell you what they want/need and to respond to them. I really don't think it is because the have a "thing against you". But when you insult a certain method of parenting, you are going to hipe a response. I personally think its just up to the parent, and get fed up on people insulting others, and to be honest, I feel that is what is being done here.

chloe - if you care to read the rest of the thread I have conceded that some parenting methods can be helpful, as can some books. But others can be damaging and patronising.

Contrary to changing the goalposts, I have read other peoples posts and agreed with a lot of them and I have been prepared to have my mind changed.

I have not said "all mothers who do baby-led weaning are completely bonkers" rather I have criticised the theories behind these methods and they way in which they are "sold" to mothers.

And neither have I said that mothers are clueless or witless. But what some people fail to realise is that depression is all consuming and this kind of pressure can take it's toll on mothers. Not everyone who has pnd of course is taken in by all these books, but we've had a few brave posters on here who have said that their depression has been made worse by these methods and books making them feel like failures.

If you read Awen and Aitch's posts I think you'll find their pitch and tone quite sarcastic and rude. I know Aitch has had run-ins with Custardo, quite bad ones, and as it is common knowledge that Custardo is my best mate in rl and I have stood by her, I think a grudge is held here.

Is there actually anyone on here who has successfully done AP with a second child? I'd be interested to know, because it seems impossible....

yes rustybear - I'd like to know too as ive been wondering how on earth i could devote myself to meeting the needs of a second child in the same way i have done with ds. At the mo if ds wants to have a feed and a nap we go into our bedroom have a liedown and a cuddle and he drifts off - and sometimes to do i - i cant see that happening with ds running around when dc2 pops into existance.

shame on you, rhubarb.

I can't be bothered with this. If I'd said blw is pants and so is everyone who does it then maybe, but until this thread I didn't even know aitch did blw.

But like I said, whatever. Just forget about it, I've asked for this thread to be deleted so just wipe the board eh?

March 2007. Do you honestly think I'm sad enough to keep a note of peoples names and then a year later set out to get them?

Get over yourself.

why have you asked for it to be deleted, didn't you say that it was just 'this little 'ol thread, it's hardly controversial now is it??' when you were trying to wind me up and insinuate some sort of hilarious custy v H blood feud before? (btw, you should read your pal's blog more, all water under the bridge i believe... or believed at any rate. )

how odd this is. i think the thread should stand. you evidently think you've been very reasonable and courteous on it so what could be the problem?