4yo being silly - CPS called on us by school

[Junkemail]

Our life feels like it's been turned upside over a silly comment my reception aged child said to their teacher that her and my DH have been eating crayons out each others bottoms.

We've ended up with social services knocking on our doors and my DH is being investigated. It is absolute nonsense, she's 4 and says stupid things like this all the time about a variety of people. My DH is being investigated as sexually abusing her now. That's one issue and I'm hoping he's found innocent in their eyes as he's been kicked out the house by then.

But how do I handle comments like this moving forward so it doesn't happen again. She tells lies and imaginary stories that I know aren't true and this time it's ended up with us being in real trouble.

And I'm not saying we shouldn't listen to children but surely someone in that profession should be able to read the signs between genuine abuse and kids talking crap. Because this must happen all the time and removing kids, splitting up families and destroying reputations cannot be the best way to handle it.

This. Sadly.

I'm sorry if this is offensive to anyone.

I work in connection with safeguarding and their are issues around young people - children and teenagers inserting sharpies with lids on into their vagina or anus and photographing it. I have not seen it myself but I believe there is a reddit forum dedicated to women doing this. There was an incident of a 12 yo putting sharpies in her friends vagina for a 'tik tok dare' at our local school. So whilst 'eating crayons out of my bum" sounds absurd and hilarious in a normal family environment I fully understand why this had to be fully investigated.

You don't joke around with children about their private parts. Always think how it could be construed if repeated. Not appropriate in the slightest to joke about biting kids bums.
My 3 year old loves to run around naked i just try and empathise that private parts are private and for when you are using toilet or in the bath.

What profession? Teachers? It's not for teachers to decide whether a child is being sexually abused or not. Their role is to refer to the appropriate services who are trained to make that judgment. If a child talks about an adult touching them in their genital region (or them touching an adult's genitals) it can't just be dismissed as probably childish silliness.

If there could anything in a comment that like at all, it's obviously the right thing to do to do what's needed to protect the child from harm. They don't know, but they are concerned, so an appropriate body investigates. That's absolutely right regardless of how it makes the adult feel.

I think that the state has to be careful where to draw the line, and I won't pretend to know where that should fall.

However, it is true that society has changed, definitely from when I was young, and probably even from when I had my own children who are now young adults.

Books and tv for children do tend to include the body and its functions much more, and "silliness" and physically "larking around" is not discouraged in a way that it might have been in the past. It's quite often fathers who enjoy playing in this type of way with their children, and it is sad in my opinion that as men take on a greater role in interacting with their kids, they are most probably the ones who will introduce them to this sort of play, and therefore these are the families that run the risk of having a child come out with this sort of thing.

Personally I never joked around like this with my kids, but that was because I'm not a "fun" parent who makes my kids really laugh and get giddy ( I'm more calm and thoughtful as a personality) and I wasn't brought up like this either. I always loved to see the kids laughing their heads off with their dad though.

I know for sure that if mine were little now and in the UK I would have been paranoid about this sort of thing.

@HollyKnight no social workers. Although I expect teachers hear it a lot too. And it's not always parents joking, a pp has spoken about a man who was removed from his family for 3 months because he told his dd she'd jumped on his Willy while jumping on the bed and it hurt. Can we literally not mention private parts to kids anymore? Anything can be misconstrued, the response fucking bonkers and so damaging for families who are innocent.

Oh I have heard worse. I know a family who were reported because their 4 year old dd had her hands down her own pants at school. The authorities were really annoyed with the school as even they said it was stupid

Kissing on the lips? Jeez, that's really really inappropriate.

I hated as a child being kissed on the lips.
Bottom grabbing, lip kissing and ''tickling'' are generally not liked by children.

Yes, they may shriek and frantically scream-giggle but may actually hate it.

You say this as if you are in the know. But you are completely wrong.

My opinion.
Dont try to explain what daughter might be confused about to SW. they might think you are trying to “control the narrative”

Let them do their thing.
only answer what they ask you.

@oakleaffy my two year old who regularly asks for kisses would disagree. The fact you think it's inappropriate for parents to kiss their own kids on the lips is incredibly sad. Distant uncles and grandparents maybe not. I wouldn't force my kids to kiss anyone, especially me. But if they want to then there is literally nothing wrong with that. It's the most natural thing in the world.

The child told the truth. That she had been jumping on her father's willy. He was the one who told her that. Social workers aren't going to know that comment made to the teacher was innocent without investigating.

Of course you can talk about private parts - in responsible ways. However, talking about nibbling on them is not a responsible way. And imo there was no need for that other father to mention his willy to his daughter while he was lying in bed. Men especially need to be aware of their behaviour and language around young children because it is a fact that most childhood SA is committed by men.

Unfortunately if that happens then if there are accusations of abuse that come to court the disclosure will count for nothing. Evidence has to be absolutely fireproof, and nice Mrs X talking to little Lucy in the the staffroom about things that happen at home won’t be accepted. Nor would any school nurse be willing to bet their professional reputation by “examining” a child, for a start they are unlikely to know what to look for and to be able describe it in a way that would satisfy a court , and furthermore would be unable to take swabs to check for infection, or photos of bruising for example .

Having a child initially disclose to you is a horrendous experience, and one of the worst things is knowing that you have to be very careful about responding to what they say, and what you say to them, to stop later allegations - when all you want to do is comfort the child and tell them everything will be OK.

Yes my 3.5 year old often goes to kiss me on the lips and I turn to give him my cheek and gently try and guide him that we kiss on the cheek. I kiss his cheeks and forehead all the time. And we do rough and tumble and tickle fights but never involving anywhere inappropriate. Always think of the bigger picture. Another example i never force my son to give anyone a kiss goodbye if he doesn't want to.
Child protection is everyone's responsibility and it starts in the home to set a standard of behaviour so they can tell if adults are being inappropriate. Sorry if that all comes across as a lecture but I feel really strongly about it.

@oakleaffy

Your opinions on what's normal and appropriate between parents and children are not at all within the normal range. You are prudish in the extreme. You do your own thing, but don't tell other parents that kissing their child on the lips or tickling them is inappropriate.

I don't think that nipping bums is normal.

No one ever nipped or nibbled my bum when I was a child.

Bums are not to be played with.

except that a very young child constantly masturbating and showing signs of sexual awareness is a marker for a child who is being sexually abused. The school was right to raise the issue when they noticed it, do you expect them to wait until the child is bleeding anally or vaginally?

How does your kid even know phrases like 'eating out of bottoms'?!

Yes it's one thing patting a baby on the bum to comfort them, but then somewhere around the point of walking and talking that fades out.

Bonkers. All those games about turning into a monster 👾. What's the time Mr Wolf? Most nursery rhymes...they'll have to go I suppose. But your kids can be accepted as animals/ fairies/ superheroes. It all depends on the latest 'guidance ' no doubt.
Who , in their right mind , would be a teacher now?

Did you stop your kid hanging around with her? Something's wrong in that house for her even to know to say that.

Back in the last century I knew a young man who was separated from his partner but had a 50:50 care order. His daughter went into nursery one day and told staff that 'Daddy put poo on my head.' The nursery reported it and the mother decided to take him to the family court to try and get sole custody by declaring that he'd been abusing her. The father explained that his daughter hated having her hair washed and so her mum never did it: he was the one who put shampoo on her hair...