When did you start disciplining your kid?

[WhenSunnyGetsBlue]

My baby is nearly 7 months. I've just started taking her to baby groups and it has so far been very positive. She's a very happy and enthusiastic baby. She screams with joy at the smallest thing. Just this week though I've noticed her starting to test some boundaries. I put her in her pushchair to go home and she started fussing because she obviously wanted to carry on playing. She intentionally threw her toy out the pram for the first time. I've also notice her snatching the spoon out my hand (as I'm preloading it for her) and she can play a bit rough. She is a baby but these behaviours cross my boundaries. Above all I worry that she will be too rough with other babies in classes so I want to teach her to be gentle. Am I expecting too much? Or is now the right time to start using the word 'no'. Obviously I'm not talking about punishment, but is 6/7 months a good age to start setting boundaries eg. If you throw the toy out the pram it goes under the pushchair until we get home.

You also don't want to stop her actually learning. Trying to grab a spoon is development, throwing is learning important motor skills. She's not doing it to be annoying and you don't want to be "punishing" her (even gently) for developing in a healthy way.

I know you're only talking about the gentlest negative reinforcement, but it still makes me a bit sad to think that this was your first thought when your baby tried to feed herself for the first time.

100% agree with this. "No" and redirect is only appropriate for things like yanking the dog's tail, or pulling at someone's earrings, or hitting another child in the face. None of them are meant maliciously but need dealt with by quickly removing the child. But these things can also be dealt with before they happen: keep baby away from dog, don't wear dangly earrings, watch your child like a hawk.

But things happen. They have to learn somehow. And things like grabbing or throwing a spoon are not moments for discipline, however you define it.

You start training your child to be a decent human being the moment they are born but initially that is by showing them what love is. By the time you get to the toddler stage you are moving on from teaching by example to things like learning to say please and thank you. That is the time to start saying no to running into the road or anything equally dangerous and removal from pleasant experiences like playgroup if you hit or scream.

7 months is too young, she won't understand discipline yet.

Probably around 18 months is when they can really start to understand

What do you mean by disciplining?

I bought the book 1,2, 3 magic by Dr Thomas Phelan which is "effective discipline for children age 2-12" after my ds scratched his older sisters face and it was very effective right up until they were teens.

Young children have no control over their lives, where they go, what they eat, who they spend time with so if they want to throw a toy in protest occasionally it's not a big deal but yes getting her to play nicely is important, but this can be done without "discipline"

@MrsCeecee
Thank you. I do think people got quite defensive about the word discipline.

I think if my post had been about another baby whacking my child on the head during a baby group and the mum smiled at me and said "oh bless, he's just a baby. He doesn't mean it" the responses might have been different.

The natural consequences approach is really good. It doesn't need any explanation or punishment. It just is. When I need to get things done I talk to her the whole time. (And yes to the angry mumsnetters, I know she can't understand) if she whinges I'll say something like "I understand that you want to play but mummy is cooking now. I think doudou wants a cuddle *plonks toy in hand." There is no telling off, but life goes on. She will learn that is just the way it is sometimes. I should note she's not crying or in distress. (She very rarely cries actually)

I think hitting is never ok. At a baby group my daughter enthusiastically grabbed the puppets face. The lady running the class did a great thing, - she turned it into a game and showed her how to stroke the puppet gently. I'm trying that with her teddy's now, stroking the teddy and calling it "gentle hands". It might be a few months before she gets it but I will be starting now.
There is no overthinking happening. It's a parent's job to model good behaviour. I was hoping this thread would have led to some practical advice but apparently Mumsnetters are of the opinion that you just allow babies to be babies and just put your hair up. I think that approach underestimates their ability to learn even when they are tiny.

I can’t get over you saying that your baby is pushing past your boundaries.

Look, I get that your generation are very into labelling and banging on about boundaries. It’s a great thing, when dealing with adults, work, friends, all of that. It should be a focus.

It is not the correct language to use when discussing the actions of a 6 month old. A 6 month old is not pushing past your boundaries.

@Ivehearditbothways all I mean by pushing my boundaries is displaying behaviours that I consider unacceptable. People have different expectations and notions of what is acceptable and not. For me hitting is never ok. I don't want my baby to hurt another child (intentionally or unintentionally). I don't blame her, or punish her. But I will tell her that it's not ok and model what is acceptable. For me that is discipline. She is beginning to understand cause and effect (she is at the stage where peekaboo is the most hilarious game ever!). She will squeal to see what my reaction is. Therefore, I think now is a good time to be gently introducing consequences. I think to pass it off as ' unavoidable baby behaviour' misses out on an important learning opportunity. I don't think discipline has to be negative, for a baby it's just clearly modelling the correct way to behave and labelling unacceptable behaviour. To teach this through play is probably the best way - I don't know, I'm not an expert. Even now we tidy up her toys together. Yes she's still too young to understand but it sets a good example and I believe that is the foundation of discipline.

Young children don't hear the word "No" and parents end up annoyed and in a negative spiral. You need natural consequences and positive actions until about 4 years old of not beyond that.

"No don't jump on the sofa" becomes "sofas are for bottoms but you can jump on the floor / trampoline"

"Don't pull on my necklaces" become " necklaces are for looking not touching"

Shorter phrases for younger ages, and don't expect children to remember either, take them to one side and set 3 clear expectations before you go in somewhere where you anticipate there might be an issue.

If you do use 'No', couple it with a hand gesture, a firm 'stop' open palmed action moved across the body will be more useful than the word

You need to read up on normal child development. You're misinterpreting a lot of her behaviours as if she is a small adult.

I think hitting is never ok. At a baby group my daughter enthusiastically grabbed the puppets face. The lady running the class did a great thing, - she turned it into a game and showed her how to stroke the puppet gently. I'm trying that with her teddy's now, stroking the teddy and calling it "gentle hands". It might be a few months before she gets it but I will be starting now.

You are in PFB mode so this is revolutionary to you. All parents do the gentle hands thing.

There is no overthinking happening. It's a parent's job to model good behaviour.

Yes that's all you need to do. No need for discipline. Just model behaviour and redirect them otherwise. More complicated things come when they are older, not when they are infants.

I was hoping this thread would have led to some practical advice but apparently Mumsnetters are of the opinion that you just allow babies to be babies and just put your hair up. I think that approach underestimates their ability to learn even when they are tiny.

You're misrepresenting what people are saying. It's normal to have to change surroundings to suit a baby. Are you going to waste time in a cafe letting them learn about the steak knife when they grab it? Or are you going to say "no sharp" (or say nothing at all), move the knife away and distract them with something else.

Yes, sometimes you do just need to put your hair up. Babies gonna baby.

Good luck to you and your boundaries with the toddler years.

Now, there is no harm in starting to use the word no or kind hands or no snatching etc. at this age.

When my DD was 18month she would grunt to be picked up but I started to say “up” and then after a while only picked her up if she said it rather than grunting.

I wouldn’t do any time out until around 2 years when you know they have the mental capacity/ understanding. Each child is different and we didn’t do times out often but only for really dangerous behaviour. Otherwise we use a more re direction and praised good behaviour approach

Too young, chill out and just say “be gentle”

If she can clap now you can start teaching her basic signs for food, drink, more, finished, home etc.

You'll probably find that more useful in the long run. Babies understand and can use sign far more fluently than forming words or understanding everything you say. You'll have to 'discipline' less if your two way communication improves

You cannot teach discipline to a baby who does not yet comprehend the notion of cause and effect.

And good luck if you expect your toddler never to hit another one.

You're going to be bitterly disappointed in 18 months time.

Well, there isn't a day you can. Go "well now you're 2 years and 14 days old, it's time to discipline"

It's a gradual process.

You're teaching your child expected behaviours, you do this CONSTANTLY throughout their lives.

So at 7 months there's no such thing as them being naughty. Literally incapable of deciding to do something "wrong". They just live in the moment. They just want to see what happens if they throw something out of a pram. It probably happened by accident first time, and then they are experimenting with it.

If you don't want something thrown out of a pram by a 7 month old, you either remove the object or tie the object to something.

You're conflating normal baby experimental behaviour with "displaying behaviours you consider unacceptable".

Because SURELY you don't actually mean you don't want your child to explore her world, what happens when she pushes/pulls/drops something? Because that's all she's doing.

She is absolutely incapable of "being naughty". It's impossible. Her brain isn't developed enough.

So have a good think about it all. Is your baby pushing boundaries or being naughty?

(Hint, she's not)

And you're not teaching her to clear up.

What you're actually teaching her is object permanence 🤷‍♀️

I think if my post had been about another baby whacking my child on the head during a baby group and the mum smiled at me and said "oh bless, he's just a baby. He doesn't mean it" the responses might have been different.

At 7 months I'm not actually sure your responses would have been wildly different. I'd expect the parent to move their child so mine was out of reach of flailing arms, but if they said "oops sorry, he doesn't mean it!" I'd agree, and think of course he doesn't mean it, he's 7 months old.

displaying behaviours that I consider unacceptable.

I cannot stress this enough. She. Is. A. Baby.

The time for this will come when she is a toddler. She is barely more than a potato. She literally just landed on the planet.

However much you're thinking about this, I'd recommend thinking less. And then less again.

Just get on with enjoying your baby.

I also agree that perhaps it would be helpful to look up a bit more about baby and child development and what is age appropriate behaviour and the different schemas children follow.

All I mean by pushing my boundaries is displaying behaviours that I consider unacceptable.

None of the three examples you gave are unacceptable behaviour or cross boundaries for a 7 month old. Fussing because she doesn’t want to get in the pram? This is completely reasonable behaviour for a baby! Just talk her through what you’re doing as you do it putting her in the pram. No big deal.

Intentionally throwing her toy out the pram - she is exploring the trajectory schema. She’s learning and it doesn’t mean at 2 she will necessarily be lobbing objects across the room!

Snatching the spoon out your hand - see if she can load the spoon herself.

All of these behaviours are completely normal and actually are a good sign. She is learning and exploring the world. Don’t tell her off for it!

I don't think OP knows what a schema is.

Discipline means “to teach”. I think you mean punish.

Your baby is learning so much every day. She’s absolutely TINY. Give your head a wobble, will you?

Intentionally throwing her toy out the pram - she is exploring the trajectory schema. She’s learning and it doesn’t mean at 2 she will necessarily be lobbing objects across the room!

indeed. But she might play netball/tennis/throw shotput at competition level later in life if she’s allowed to explore!