I don't want my 5 year old anymore

[icann]

I'm using a throwaway. Judge me all you want but I need some serious advice

I have 2 children..one who is 5 and who just gone 3.
My 5 year old is going into year 1..strongly suspected ADHD or autism. But the channels of diagnosis move slow. I'm sure it will crop up but no I cannot afford private

Right where to start. She's aggressive. I'm covered in cuts and bruises and scratches. My 3 year old is the same. She attacks her or me for the slightest infraction. Hitting, biting, screaming. The abuse she gives me. She laughs while she's doing it like it's funny. It's not. My 3 year old is terrified of her.

She doesn't listen. Does what the hell she wants. Nothing I say works. Nothing I say sinks in.

She doesn't sleep. She's awake till half 11 plus most nights. We've had the same bedtime routine since she was like a baby. Nothing works. Story, bath. Doesn't sleep. Just awake. Screaming abuse and hitting me and kicking me.

Speaks to me like I'm a slave. Her attitude stinks.

Refuses to go to school. God knows how ill get her there next week. Every morning is a battle. I've tried having a routine, getting her uniform sorted. Nothing works.

My 3 year old is losing all the time. Days out ruined. Can't watch her programme, can't play with her toys, can't do anything for fear of getting hurt. I watch them both like a hawk but inevitably my 3 year old comes out worse.

I don't want to do this. I don't see why I should. Yes she's my daughter but unconditional love only goes so far. I feel like scooping my 3 year old up and going as far away as possible. Dad is on the scene but works 5 days a week. 10 to 12 hour days. He has the same behaviour..

I've got a black eye and my daughter is currently sat with another bite mark from her sister. What's she going to be like at 8? Or 10? Or 14? The gp put her on a waiting list. The wait in my area is up to 4 years. I can't do this. I am.so broken and I have a 3 year old to think of.

Please help

@icann I think it's really important to view this from the position that she likely cannot control these behaviours.

What actual support are you getting? A diagnosis doesn't magic up lots of things that help, very little will change.

Support is based on need, NOT a diagnosis. You do not need to wait for a diagnosis on paper to access help.

I would make a self referral to occupational therapy a priority. I would also ask school about an educational psychologist. You also mentioned communication - what's her communication like? A speech and language referral may also be needed although may be trickier to get NHS as they have quite a low bar before discharge although some of that is area dependent. .

A lot of the neurotypical parenting ideals need to go out of the window with a neurodivergent child. Screen time for example is often very regulating.

Have you been able to identify anything that helps her when she is so distressed?

It's often trickier when ND kids are compliant at school (and you'll often bear the brunt of that at home afterwards). Keep a diary - what happened, what triggered it etc. with photos and if you can, try and record some of her behaviours. It may be needed for valuable evidence at assessment time if you don't have other professionals e.g. school seeing the same behaviours (really common in girls)

To all the people saying ‘what’s her screen time/diet/consequences etc’ you have clearly never raised a special needs child.

OP, I want you to know you are not alone and that you WILL get through this. My son is autistic and now 6 years old. For YEARS we had the biting, aggression etc. What I learnt (through much trial and error) is that all behaviour is communication. When you reframe it like that, you can start to really get to terms with what the triggers might be for their behaviour or if there is anything they are trying to communicate that they can’t.

Pleased to say after 3 years of speech and occupational therapy, the aggression is gone. Don’t get me wrong, we still have hard days but it so much more manageable now.

If you can, get a private speech and language assesment. This will also support your case for diagnosis and it will give you both some coping strategies.

It isn’t going to be easy but I promise it is worth it.

Sending you much love and strength, from one SEN mum to another x

From my DCs paediatrician, they prescribe it but it has to be reviewed regularly and I think they stop prescribing when they’re teenagers as it’s not licensed I think.

You can buy it online though. I don’t think GPs can prescribe it, ours can’t.

@icann my heart goes out to you. I can hear your frustration and pain. You're not to blame and your child doesn't need discipline or punishment.
Have you tried here (below) for advice?

www.autism.org.uk

There are no easy fixes and most would involve a lot of short term pain for long term gain, but, there is some evidence that hyperactive children find it easier to behave when you do the following:

• cut out all screens. No TV on in the house. No games on your phone etc.
• cut out all sugar, white bread and white pasta (all refined carbohydrates).
• cut out all processed foods. No crisps, no salami, no ready sliced ham, no sweetened yoghurts (including ones with artificial sweetener).

Please take notes of the responses about not punishing her. I’m not qualified to diagnose but I am a mum of a disabled child and have a son with asd, I strongly suspect your daughter is autistic with pda, punishment won’t work you need different tactics. It’s tough I know, and very hard to live with but there’s lots of resources and support to be found online

My daughter was a night owl (never asleep before midnight from 0-4) and we couldn’t bath her in the evening as it was like getting Gizmo wet.

We didn’t find out till she was 12 that she has ADHD, but have always picked our battles.

I think you quoted or replied to someone else agreeing with them and they mentioned this kind of treatment is abuse. Sorry if not, holding a baby so can't scroll back.

Genuinely no idea how some people parent day by day if simple strategies like sending a child to their room is now considered abuse. Lord help us all.

You can say it again all you like. It doesn’t make it true. ‘Fight for it’ comes after every other possibility has been exhausted. This child doesn’t even have a diagnosis yet (I’m not doubting for a moment she has autism or ADHD, but there is nothing official stating she does.)

There are extremely unwell and disabled children up and down the country with their parents at breaking point. Even if respite was granted and paid for, who would do it? There aren’t endless carers: it’s a rubbish job and poorly paid for one thing.

You work in law if I recall correctly. There is no law that says respite care must be granted. You can of course insist your child Is taken into care but that’s an extreme and very distressing experience for everyone.

ZERO junk food any more for either of them. They are full of all sorts of rubbish that can affect people. You are the boss and the adult, not your 5 year old daughter

Giving her up is not an option and I doubt one you really want. It's hard but you need to keep pushing it with your GP and with the Senco at your child's school. Often they don't like to diagnose them with anything until they've explored other avenues but if there is neuro divergence, going off what you've said I think there is, you will get more support and things put in place for her once you're on that path.

Hang on. Dad on scene but exhibits same behaviour? Do you mean as your 5 year old daughter? As in hitting, biting and scratching you and ignoring and belittling everything you say? If that is the case, your answer is right there. Your daughter is learning from her father to treat you like BS and learning from you that you will accept it. Sort the dad problem and then you can unteachable your daughters learned behaviour. Truly hoping I have picked up the domestic violence from your husband wrong.

I was in this situation 7 years ago, with my then 5 year old son and 2 year old daughter. I promise it gets better. My son is now 12, and the aggression is well managed. You need to doorstep everyone and anyone. Get early help involved, get school involved. The more people fighting your corner the better it will be. It's hard, so so hard. But your doing all the right things. Could you ask for some respite care? We have a service for family's with under 5's that will come in and help around the house, help with day trips. I can't recall what it's called though. Good luck and big hugs x

@dementedmummy OP clarified that she meant the child acts the same way for the dad. Not that dad is violent.

Op look at the pda society website for low/no demand techniques,

Keep on at the asd assessment people.

Has she started school yet? What is she like there? I'd recommend applying for an EHC needs assessment. Even if school say she's fine I'm guessing meltdowns happen at home after school every day? Be prepared to appeal, the right school setting can make a HUGE difference to your home life.

Ask for a referral to a sensory qualified occupational therapist and look at info about sensory processing difficulties and techniques to help with this. Not all areas have these OTs available though.

Treat her like she's autistic. Use whatever techniques you can find that work.

Ask your council for a section 17 assessment and access to short breaks. It's an assessment for disabled children and you may get some support respite (but don't hold your breath, you have to fight for everything!). Make it clear your risk of family a breakdown is high if you aren't given support/respite.

Get familiar with the IPSEA website, they talk you through all the EHC needs assessment stuff. There will also be info about social care support for disabled children on there.

I'm not sure I have any useful advice but I wanted to say that your description of your daughter actually matches what I remember of myself as a child. My primary school, I later found out, thought I was a bit quirky but no real concerns, whereas at home I was doing most of the things your daughter is doing. Looking back I was absolutely terrified, as if in the middle of a lake in a boat with no paddles. Things started to get better for me when I hit secondary school and someone twigged that there was something not right with me. They had an in house counsellor and speaking to her did wonders to help me regulate my emotions because I could say anything to her and she'd respond with absolute calmness - something my family understandably couldn't do as I was pushing their buttons 24/7. I also was diagnosed with autism around that time.

Very sorry that this is not offering any practical advice, I just wanted to express my sympathies and maybe give a little bit of hope that your situation might improve with time, as mine did.

OP you'll get lots of well meaning advice from people advising discipline and consistency but I know from experience that this just doesn't work for children like ours. I have found the explosive child and excellent source to try and understand my DC behaviour and put in action before they lash out.

It does sound like over stimulation and tiredness. I feel you about the diagnosis because I am getting nowhere fast. Read up on parenting ND children and start doing some of the work that way.

Sending hugs your way!

Hi Op,

fellow mum of an autistic 5 yr old DD here. I also have a 3 yr old (and im 7m pregnant)

just want to send a massive hug.

with regards to diagnosis - various charities can help with this ill link one below
https://www.caudwellchildren.com/changing-lives/how-we-can-help/autism-services/autism-assessments/?gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAA9trsq903Pa9ZQo5mXaE3IgBcgkVJ&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_fHYguKfiAMVv4CDBx3JUQAoEAAYASAAEgLyYPD_BwE

you are doing your best. Its so so tough.

lots of people have suggested cutting certain food out - just on the flip side to that and so you dont feel so bad if you have tried. My DD has a very very limited poor diet - i worry daily - she has afrid its really common with ASD.

really hard that school and gp wont help!

every child is so different and what works for one wont work for another but for my DD something that helps a little is a peanut ball - the movement and the bouncing

im probably no help at all but if you ever want to chat id be happy to! x

OP this sounds unbearable and you sound understandably absolutely exhausted and at your wits end. I hope you have some support for you? Do you have any?

The over stimulation comment from a pp is making me wonder. Does she actually need quiet time? Does she ask for it? What is her preference if asked? Is it rational? Does isolating her work at all?

We have a sensory room for a reason at work, zero stimulation, just no stimulation/demands on the dc for 30 minutes. I work with older kids, most of whom can self regulate eventually so this may not be relevant to a younger child.

Also speak to the gp about melatonin. Ask for a second opinion or referral to paeds if they say no.

I have an autistic 5 year old boy (diagnosed) and likely ADHD too so i recognise everything you have said there. I dont believe you don't want her. I believe you want it to be easier. The waiting list is long but there are things you can do to regulate her in the mean time. I recommend a book called "understanding your childs sensory signals edition 5". Im not sure if this is in your area but we got help from the family support hub for behaviours. It works from a book called "the incredible years".

It’s possible that she finds school difficult because she has to mask and therefore her anxiety levels will be sky high and she may well find the uniform feels different. A lot of autistic kids struggle with the feel and texture of clothes. And food!

I do worry about comprehension on here. It was clear anyway that the OP meant her DD shows the same behaviour when dad is around but even if it wasn’t it was she clarifies it in the thread.