I don't want my 5 year old anymore

[icann]

I'm using a throwaway. Judge me all you want but I need some serious advice

I have 2 children..one who is 5 and who just gone 3.
My 5 year old is going into year 1..strongly suspected ADHD or autism. But the channels of diagnosis move slow. I'm sure it will crop up but no I cannot afford private

Right where to start. She's aggressive. I'm covered in cuts and bruises and scratches. My 3 year old is the same. She attacks her or me for the slightest infraction. Hitting, biting, screaming. The abuse she gives me. She laughs while she's doing it like it's funny. It's not. My 3 year old is terrified of her.

She doesn't listen. Does what the hell she wants. Nothing I say works. Nothing I say sinks in.

She doesn't sleep. She's awake till half 11 plus most nights. We've had the same bedtime routine since she was like a baby. Nothing works. Story, bath. Doesn't sleep. Just awake. Screaming abuse and hitting me and kicking me.

Speaks to me like I'm a slave. Her attitude stinks.

Refuses to go to school. God knows how ill get her there next week. Every morning is a battle. I've tried having a routine, getting her uniform sorted. Nothing works.

My 3 year old is losing all the time. Days out ruined. Can't watch her programme, can't play with her toys, can't do anything for fear of getting hurt. I watch them both like a hawk but inevitably my 3 year old comes out worse.

I don't want to do this. I don't see why I should. Yes she's my daughter but unconditional love only goes so far. I feel like scooping my 3 year old up and going as far away as possible. Dad is on the scene but works 5 days a week. 10 to 12 hour days. He has the same behaviour..

I've got a black eye and my daughter is currently sat with another bite mark from her sister. What's she going to be like at 8? Or 10? Or 14? The gp put her on a waiting list. The wait in my area is up to 4 years. I can't do this. I am.so broken and I have a 3 year old to think of.

Please help

Got one of my own thanks - have you?

So someone you know vaguely had a place at a residential school right🙄
First of the Ops child is five and as yet doesn't have a diagnosis even if she did she wouldn't be getting a place at a residential school they cost £££££££,s and the LEA would only agree to fund the most complex of children ,where its found absolutely no other school can meet the child's needs ,and even when that is agreed it can take along time to fund a suitable school

In theory maybe, but in practice local authorities hold a high threshold because of ever increasing numbers of applications. For an assessment to be agreed there must be evidence that the child may have SEN. The legal definition for what constitutes ‘SEN’ is set out in Section 20 (1) Children and Families Act 2014 which states ‘A child or young person has special educational needs if he or she has a learning difficulty or disability which calls for special educational provision to be made for him or her.’ At the moment there appears to be no special educational needs identified which is why i didn't want the OP to believe this to be a likely source of help at this stage. And yes, she can apply herself but the same evidence would be needed.

I know of another child who went to an expensive boarding school paid for by the council

( An adopted child) so it most definitely can happen.

I know it can happen but it ain't happening here ,because she's to young ,she doesn't have a diagnosis ,school don't have any concerns do you want me to go on ?
I have a complex need child my self and I have an understanding of how LEA ,s work they won't be sending a mainstream child into a residential school, many options are tried first .

I'd be surprised if a child with SEMH needs this high had no classroom issues at all.

My child's somewhat similar and has got an EHCP. In the guidance it explains that a child achieving at expected levels but only because of an unusual amount of effort from those around them, can be considered to have SEN. I have paraphrased but it does say that.

OP, if when the immediate crisis is over you'd like to pursue an EHCP, you can find accurate advice on the support threads I set up on here in the SEN section.

I also agree that home education isn't going to work for you (at least not right now), and I say this as a home educator. You're far too stressed and exhausted, and that break when she's at school is too important right now, even if school is one of the reasons why she's so dysregulated.

Maybe when/if you make some progress and she's regulated more often it might be something to look into, but only if you've got the capacity.

Home ed is great and we love it, but it's a massive undertaking.

Are the GP, your parents? OP? Do you have any extended family?

There my husbands parents. I lost both my parents several years ago. And I have one sister but she lives In France. I think she's seen my youngest child twice. My husband is an only child. We have friends but honestly I wouldn't ask any of them to watch her.
She's destroyed downstairs. She's given me another bruise on my arm. She's smashed my husbands cup. All over a craft set.
My youngest wants to come home. She's taken what the 5 year old has said to heart. My in laws have said its up to us and they will keep her but she is asking to come home. But the mood my oldest is in? Like from reading this and my own suspicions yes she more than likely is autistic but now I'm having to choose which child to upset. My 3 year old misses so much and now I either say yes come home but be on the look out for another bite or punch or no stay away from your own home.

It's so hard.

Could you go and hang out with little DD for a bit, reassure her that you love her, and see if she'll stay then? Assuming your in laws don't live too far away for this.

I don't know that there's a right answer here. You can only do your best.

I think it's probably best your 3 year old does stay away overnight. Can GPs drop her to nursery?

Lesser of two evils I'd say?

She starts nursery Wednesday just as the older starts school again. It's so hard. I already feel like my oldest hates me. She tells me enough times. But now I've got to tell mt youngest to stay away. I'm going to drive over and speak to them about lending some money. My husband knows. He would come but the mood the oldest is in it wouldn't be fair on them. Maybe I'll do my youngest some tea and settle her to bed there and maybe that will be enough.

I think that's a good compromise.

Do ask them if they'd pay for the assessment. It could really help. More than a bathroom!

Thats great.

A great way to discourage OP from getting the help she needs. Also nonsense.

Honestly the long summer holidays really don't help hopefully things might be a bit calmer when she returns ti school
I would speak to the SENCO, about your concerns for both girls, they might be able to arrange a,team around the child/ family meeting, yes whilst they probably cant offer much in the way of practical help at least everyone will be on same page and they may also offer parenting course Triple P etc ( yes I have been on them !) Even if you don't find then useful it's always,a good way of meeting fellow parents experiencing similar issues .

Check social care ombudsman decisions, the reports give details of investigations where complaints have been made. Our group has supported parents making claims of exactly these “failures” and the Ombudsman has found in parents favour … awarding paltry sums to “make things right”. No sum repairs the damage inflicted on younger sibling.

Knowing the shameful, irresponsible and vindictive behavior at some councils, I would always warn parents to be careful that their experiences can be dangerously misinterpreted by SW.
In my opinion.

If any MN have had glowing helpful SW in situation like this, please share to balance the discussion.

All over a craft set.

It does seem crazy doesn't it. But that's only the trigger. By now she's probably just raging because she doesn't know how to stop.

Comparing the behaviour of a possibly ND child to that of a NT badly behaved child isn’t helpful. Neither are phrases like ‘well behaved younger sibling’. If the child is ND it isn’t bad behaviour, it’s an extreme reaction to a developmental disability that robs her of the ability to understand the world around her, communicate effectively and make sense of her internal turmoil. It’s totally different. She’s not setting out to behave like this, she’s doesn’t ’have it in’ for her sister, and she probably wouldn’t know where to start with the concept of jealousy.

OP I don't know if you saw my post.

Im in south Yorkshire.

The pathway for diagnosis both private and NHS should require evidence like reports from school and other professionals and that can take time nut my son had his diagnosis within 11 months of a referral and I had my adult assessment and diagnosis within 4 months.

The actual gathering of information takes the longest amount of time so as soon as schools are back next week get them on board ASAP but the national wait being 4-6 years isn't representative of the south Yorkshire area and I think we have better waiting list outcomes even though they can still be lengthy in high masking individuals as they need multiple assessments from different professionals.

It's important it takes the right amount of time, not too little time and not too much. They need to make sure there's nothing else it could be so that the support she's given afterwards is correct for her.

I'm not against private diagnosis in any form and you've got to do what you think is best but I just wanted to tell you of my recent diagnostic timelines with the SWYT ADHD/Autism team.

OP it sounds like you are a family in crisis. Please get in touch with the organisation I mentioned yesterday https://www.newboldhope.com/
they deal with these issues the whole time and will be able to help you and DH to work together to stop every day being like this…it’s literally their purpose.

she probably wouldn’t know where to start with the concept of jealousy

Doesn't mean she isn't feeling it though. Here is a possible internal narrative:

When my big feelings burst out of me they make me break things and hurt people. I'm a terrible person. Nobody loves me and they are right. Everyone loves my sister instead because she doesn't break things and hurt people. It's not fair. I say I hate people and I close myself off from them because I am scared of them not loving me. Also I know I will hurt them when I'm angry and that scares me. I must deserve for nobody to love me but that makes me so sad and angry.

They've told me to book it. Book whatever we need and pay for it with their bank. They can see she's struggling and we are struggling. They've said whatever she needs and whatever it costs to just do it. Little one is staying tonight. She's asked if I will stay until she falls asleep which I've said I will. Husbands phoned to say oldest fell asleep and he's just left her on the floor asleep. He doesn't know what to do either. Put a pillow and a blanket on her.
Thank you for everyone's help. I'll continue to update. But I've read each and every reply. And I appreciate every one of you

Thanks for updating icann. You've got a good plan, and a wonderful set of in-laws.

Keep coming for support when you need it.

All the best for a quiet evening.