I don't want my 5 year old anymore

[icann]

I'm using a throwaway. Judge me all you want but I need some serious advice

I have 2 children..one who is 5 and who just gone 3.
My 5 year old is going into year 1..strongly suspected ADHD or autism. But the channels of diagnosis move slow. I'm sure it will crop up but no I cannot afford private

Right where to start. She's aggressive. I'm covered in cuts and bruises and scratches. My 3 year old is the same. She attacks her or me for the slightest infraction. Hitting, biting, screaming. The abuse she gives me. She laughs while she's doing it like it's funny. It's not. My 3 year old is terrified of her.

She doesn't listen. Does what the hell she wants. Nothing I say works. Nothing I say sinks in.

She doesn't sleep. She's awake till half 11 plus most nights. We've had the same bedtime routine since she was like a baby. Nothing works. Story, bath. Doesn't sleep. Just awake. Screaming abuse and hitting me and kicking me.

Speaks to me like I'm a slave. Her attitude stinks.

Refuses to go to school. God knows how ill get her there next week. Every morning is a battle. I've tried having a routine, getting her uniform sorted. Nothing works.

My 3 year old is losing all the time. Days out ruined. Can't watch her programme, can't play with her toys, can't do anything for fear of getting hurt. I watch them both like a hawk but inevitably my 3 year old comes out worse.

I don't want to do this. I don't see why I should. Yes she's my daughter but unconditional love only goes so far. I feel like scooping my 3 year old up and going as far away as possible. Dad is on the scene but works 5 days a week. 10 to 12 hour days. He has the same behaviour..

I've got a black eye and my daughter is currently sat with another bite mark from her sister. What's she going to be like at 8? Or 10? Or 14? The gp put her on a waiting list. The wait in my area is up to 4 years. I can't do this. I am.so broken and I have a 3 year old to think of.

Please help

I have tried verbalising it and explaining it. Not nastily. Just listing the facts. Example: little sister is frightened when you pulled her hair so doesn't want to play right now.
Or 'grandma and grandad can't have you at there house because last time you broke the ornaments and hurt grandad'

She doesn't listen. She clamps her hands over her ears and yells no.

@icann

Which part of the country do you live in, OP?

We are in south Yorkshire

I recommended them up thread but the thread has moved fast.

These books have good strategies. She's not the first to behave like this. As evidenced by both being bestsellers!

www.amazon.co.uk/Explosive-Child-Sixth-Understanding-Chronically/dp/0063092468/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=30JD0TX0HW9N4&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.sfMh4IkHmrNslMO06mzsEgfFk2x1CMrx4Mn0B1qZseJWoWHaKZI9igQuc0-LGFOtRHoeiOWQW6oju89sltrbobv_w6xDyUJ8JXd0Eb8L1DPGYd2m9kuz-TDYCN_Idd-_hqvX360CwRR2Umtgeeb59f63AXJ5Vc36WPDjgNRX31qnJM_P5Z2fNB7ZzlOCKin56K9Qk5_2OW48M14xvLEDqQ.dzOdIelIZQHswPFp8LTlOU5J3yvRBqxEGaB7-2YQDY8&dib_tag=se&keywords=the+explosive+child&qid=1725195180&sprefix=the+explos%2Caps%2C159&sr=8-1

www.amazon.co.uk/Days-Less-Defiant-Child-Breakthrough/dp/0306829800/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=325MVEG5GRX7F&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.Pu3lK4yuZhuRaNF31eG7cqHbK1ZUOR2TxxUAitPE_UzS_ohRhDF7lHMbrEUka9jecENv-aAs5VA0-ArdyEUJ4RfQy3_AOtxHSL3bEvHOkoG9eymHB0ZQyZ3ZzKc8TB3w6oOTEON8aH8AtK00yE2A_VwT1ffkDj80R8CEL_Z0H95GS7m5FmEnnrvPKL-MJxyMwTcnlX6GhikUBD-wdjn7-A.l7V2Ew02cPtbyTbV4FfoeDlbO2g1Czxr6371RKv_6ko&dib_tag=se&keywords=10+days+to+a+less+defiant+child&qid=1725195203&sprefix=10+days+%2Caps%2C109&sr=8-1

OP did say at some point they'd downloaded the first one to read :)

www.caudwellchildren.com/changing-lives/how-we-can-help/autism-services/autism-assessments/ they have some funded assessments. Make sure your GP is aware. Would take up a day but well worth it. Getting an assessment was definitely a turning point for us and ours didn't include follow up, which these ones do.

Always a danger they feel this way when you clearly don't love the behavior!

We are a very saying 'I love you' kind of household. I always tell DS a lot that I love him. I make extra effort to do so when I'm mad at him. I don't know if it helps. Certainly when he was younger then making a big effort to be extra loving when he was or had been in a rage / breaking things, could help to reset things.

Re sticker charts; they never worked with DS either as he flips out under the pressure. One thing that does work though is something they did at group therapy; an all positive sticker chart. So they don't fail to get a sticker for not doing things. Just any time they do something nice (there's a set of desired behaviors explained to them at the start) they get a sticker and if they have more than a certain fairly undemanding number they get a small reward at the end of the day.

I actually prefer the second. Ross Greene is great but I couldn't work out what to actually DO. Jeffrey Bernstein is so so practical. I use his ideas at home and in the classroom.

If I ever meet these nice American docs I shall shake them by the hand!!

@icann

I appreciate that long term private help might not be feasible, but could you arrange an initial consultation with someone with a relevant practice such as this person?

https://relatingpsychology.com/therapy-in-sheffield/

I don't want you to be alone struggling with what you are going through, it sounds just awful.

Ah, thank you! I've read The Explosive Child and this was my thought about it. I'll look at the other book.

EDIT: LOL, I bought it back in February. I guess that's my next reading project.

I may just suck it up and see if the grandparents can lend us some money for an assessment. I cannot wait 4 years. End of. I dread to think the state of our family in 4 years. I mean they offered to lend us money to redo the bathroom which I declined last year so maybe they'll help with this

In her words 'I did it wrong'. She was crafting..sticking and gluing and she's thrown the table and is back to trashing the house. Thrown a chair at my husband and told me she never wants to see me again.. back to the beginning of today and hiding upstairs

Hard to swallow your pride for that sort of thing, but I think that's a very good idea icann.

I'm sorry it's all gone wrong again.

@icann

It looks as though the initial phone consultation with Dr Campion would be free, OP.

That might be a really good option for you. There seems to be everything to gain.

I would touch base with her initially so that you can gain some direction on what the longer term answer will be.

I'm suggesting that because speaking to her may open the door to an assessment for autism, for instance. If you do obtain a diagnosis, that will guide you to the right person for your daughter and it's then that you can consider how to fund it.

At the moment, you very clearly have examples of the distressing behaviour, but understanding what is causing that is going to need professional help.

Please ask them for the money. They seem decent people.

DS had perfectionist tendencies - school his Y3 teacher was brilliant with this - very much it's okay to make mistakes and show herself doing so.

Might be worth bring up with the school - see if they see it or can help with it.

Though some craft kits can be awful.

Does sound like approaching DGP for money to get a private assessment is a good plan - clearly there's a lot going on with her and you need answers to work out how to manage her better.

@icann Aargh- it must be like walking on eggshells around this child.
She sounds incredibly strong if she’s capable of flipping tables and throwing chairs.

NO ONE should have to put up with that in their own home, least of all the younger child.

This will be all she knows- the living in fear from
her older sibling.

At school I had a friend who had an older brother who was in a residential place.

Once he was there for a weekend visit when friend invited me over, and it was terrifying .

His screaming rages, and trying to overturn their large polished dining table- the heavy wooden ( full of fruit) bowl sliding off and friend saying we had to get up to her bedroom and to “safety”.

This post is not helpful. That’s your opinion not fact. It’s scaremongering guised as trying to be ‘helpful’.

Go and have a read about capacity?

Families with disabled children need practical support not condemnation.

When life is so difficult for you, having expectations raised on Mumsnet isn’t helpful for you. As far as an application for an EHCP is concerned, the threshold is high. The school would need to provide evidence of additional needs in school and extra support that she has needed and they have provided over time for it to be accepted and progressed. From what you've said that doesn't apply. So by all means talk to the school, especially about her reluctance to go in, but I doubt they will be able to support the EHCP route at this point.

Are you offering practically to take the 5 yr old for respite??

Op needs a physical break , as do rest of family.

I hope she gets it

No one needs to live in fear of hurt from their sibling.

Incorrect. The threshold to assess is not high and you don't need school's support to apply for an EHCP. You can do this yourself. See the IPSEA website for advice on EHCP assessment.

www.ipsea.org.uk/asking-for-an-ehc-needs-assessment