I don't want my 5 year old anymore

[icann]

I'm using a throwaway. Judge me all you want but I need some serious advice

I have 2 children..one who is 5 and who just gone 3.
My 5 year old is going into year 1..strongly suspected ADHD or autism. But the channels of diagnosis move slow. I'm sure it will crop up but no I cannot afford private

Right where to start. She's aggressive. I'm covered in cuts and bruises and scratches. My 3 year old is the same. She attacks her or me for the slightest infraction. Hitting, biting, screaming. The abuse she gives me. She laughs while she's doing it like it's funny. It's not. My 3 year old is terrified of her.

She doesn't listen. Does what the hell she wants. Nothing I say works. Nothing I say sinks in.

She doesn't sleep. She's awake till half 11 plus most nights. We've had the same bedtime routine since she was like a baby. Nothing works. Story, bath. Doesn't sleep. Just awake. Screaming abuse and hitting me and kicking me.

Speaks to me like I'm a slave. Her attitude stinks.

Refuses to go to school. God knows how ill get her there next week. Every morning is a battle. I've tried having a routine, getting her uniform sorted. Nothing works.

My 3 year old is losing all the time. Days out ruined. Can't watch her programme, can't play with her toys, can't do anything for fear of getting hurt. I watch them both like a hawk but inevitably my 3 year old comes out worse.

I don't want to do this. I don't see why I should. Yes she's my daughter but unconditional love only goes so far. I feel like scooping my 3 year old up and going as far away as possible. Dad is on the scene but works 5 days a week. 10 to 12 hour days. He has the same behaviour..

I've got a black eye and my daughter is currently sat with another bite mark from her sister. What's she going to be like at 8? Or 10? Or 14? The gp put her on a waiting list. The wait in my area is up to 4 years. I can't do this. I am.so broken and I have a 3 year old to think of.

Please help

I sincerely hope you can take care of yourself OP in this very difficult situation. The GP sound helpful which is good.

There will be a light at the end of the tunnel and some good professionals to help. I very much hope so.

In these circumstances parents generally grow up and step up. You are deluded if you think care is an option anyone is going to offer. A social care assessment might result in a small amount of respite and possibly an 'early help' offer. Living with disabilities is hard for families, particularly given the level of stigma and parent and child blaming you see on forums like this.

@icann

It's an awful situation, OP. I feel for you.

In my earlier post, I suggested asking about a referral to Great Ormond Street.

This Psychologist, for instance, deals with anger issues in children.

https://www.gosh.nhs.uk/our-people/staff-z/anna-hurley/

My thinking was that you might at least be able to see someone who could help - the chances of this happening in your local area don't seem very high.

Could you ask them whether your daughter could be referred to them via your GP?

I do think that someone needs to step in soon, you can't go on with this strain.

You seem to be on a bit of a hobby horse with autism. Perhaps start your own thread? Op needs support.

Its complex. Maybe not good for the OP to get caught up in this type of discussion.
At one end, people want to pathologise absolutely everything...at the other end a simplistic view.
It is wrong for a small child to hurt anyone, let alone her parents and sibling.

You have no idea how you would cope in this situation
For most care isnt an option ,and then it's only after years and years of struggle parents may decide to make that decision if its,agreed its in the best interest of the child ,to blithely say i would just choose the care option is ignorant at best.

I’m really bothered by the dismissal of these symptoms as “bad parenting” or people being soft.

We truly don’t know why the diagnosis of developmental disorders has been skyrocketing. It could be environmental, older parents, or a whole host of other reasons.

parents reaching out need to be supported and not blamed for when sticker charts don’t work. Kids like this need more.

Being abused by a five year have you heard yourself?
This is a small child we are talking about not some six foot 17 stone aggressive male.

Exactly which is why its not helpful to give a blanket 'this is not like this' statement.

Medical professionals do differ and having been working with children for nearly 30 years, I can tell you that what are in 'guidelines' and DSM now, wont be the same in 5, 10, 20 years time. There are huge concerns from practitioners, therapists at the moment about the almost complete ignorance of attachment issues.

People who are so sure now that this or that is the way forward or this or that is the strategy and reason, will have been overridden by something new, another theory, different research. And that in turn will change again in years henceforth.

Every other child seems to have '' a diagnosis '' - there has to be a reason for it.
I'm far from the only person noticing this trend.

Why so many poorly behaved children suddenly appearing?

There has to be a cause.

Well that sounds lovely for you, but our 8 year old is still very much in those stages, and I’d thank you to not imply he’s abusive.

It’s a very long and laborious process teaching a learning disabled child how to regulate their emotions, and absolutely zero SENd parents require your judgment.

Yes and that cause is likely genetic or environmental. This mother cooks almost everything from scratch, stays at home with her children, and limits screen time. She is as near perfect as can be. This is not her fault.

That’s not what masking is. It’s a trauma response and a coping mechanism those with ND use to self protect and to try to deal with challenging or distressing situations. It’s a sign of internal struggle and absolutely not an indication that ‘they can behave if they feel they have to’. That’s ignorant, ableist claptrap, as is your offensive reference to ‘stricter and effective teachers’ - ASD is an organic developmental spectrum disorder, not a lack of discipline in the classroom.

Masking involves the person concealing their true emotions and thoughts, and the fact that they are struggling, to appear to ‘fit in’ to social situations they don’t understand. It involves a complex process of changing speech patterns to mimic neurotypical speech, memorising phrases, relying on rehearsed language in conversations. It also hides communication difficulties and challenges with understanding idioms, sarcasm, or non-literal language. If the person becomes effective at masking it can also lead to a delay in diagnosis.

It’s also exhausting, and incredibly isolating, causing stress, anxiety and depression. Which is why ND people often have meltdowns, or sleep for long periods when they get to their safe space and they can finally drop the mask and be themselves.

ASD affects people in different ways. It causes a disconnect between cause and effect, actions and consequences, and if this child is on the spectrum she will likely be struggling to make sense of the world - hence the extremely challenging behaviour. As evidenced by some of the posts here, it’s still not generally well understood and remains a challenging problem for the sufferer and their family - not least because the world looks on and judges both the child and the parenting skills for the perceived ‘bad behaviour’.

I know my limits, and I wouldn't be waiting and struggling years to pursue the care option. In the meantime, I wouldnt be wringing my handa about some time out in the 5 year olds room, to protect the 3 year old and everyone else from violence. The state needs to step up with some serious support in a situation like this. If its not forthcoming then all my energies would be on the care option.

Do you have children?

I don't think this is true. My sons SENCO said they have classes of between 26 and 31 and they might have 1 or 2 in each class.

Now I don't think I live in a special bubble either so even though that's anecdotal, in a school of over 1000 1 to 2 in each class isn't "every other child".

And in this area unless your child already has an EHCP in place, the only way to access specialist is to go through mainstream until they can no longer meet need and then apply so there will be a higher proportion of SEN children in the younger classes as they're less likely to have reached an EHCP decision.

So please provide your evidence for "every other child" being diagnosed with autism or adhd to back up your ridiculous hyperbole.

@LondonFox your posts read as someone who feels they have won at parenting because they're at ease with physically hurting children.

Just FYI.

Tell me you know nothing about autism without telling me...

Please read about masking in detail. Children can apprer to behave, but they cannot sustain that the whole time.

There are many reasons why many children have a diagnosis, you're not that super observant to nitice the trend, but fail to see the reason- (not sure why you use brackets for the word diagnosis either?)- mostly because of much higher awareness of mental health and SEN and it not being somehting many people are ashamed of.

There is. ASD - an organic developmental disorder. Could be genetic, could be environmental. It’s a disability and it’s not ‘suddenly appearing’, it’s been around for a long, long time. But medical science has moved on and with better diagnostic processes we’re able to recognise, understand and diagnose these conditions, instead of labelling clear and severe learning and behavioural disability as ‘poor behaviour’ and suggesting better discipline is the answer. Perhaps if you actually make an effort to understand the condition before you come to a thread with such a judgemental and ableist attitude, you might be able to contribute on a more positive note.

Clearly not. There is little option for care of children with behavioural difficulties like these - foster care is a non-starter and the reality is that the child will be the family’s problem until she is either old enough to be housed in a hostel/shared accommodation or is charged with a criminal offence and ends up in the justice system, as is the case with so many ND and mental health issues, because the system is utterly broken.

MN didn’t delete your post for that reason, but then l think you know that. If your children were ‘quite quickly out of the biting/hitting toddler stage’ then bully for you, and count yourself lucky that they weren’t ND because if that were the case you’d be here telling a very different story.

If a child is on the ASD spectrum, they have a developmental disability which causes varying degrees of difficulty with understanding actions and consequences, cause and effect. Which is why the behaviour described by the OP happens. It stems from difficulty in understanding the world around them and communicating with it. Punishment means nothing if you don’t recognise your behaviour as wrong. See my post upthread if you want a bit of detail in laymans’ terms, but in the meantime at least recognise that the world may not be some ‘unicorn rainbow’ but it’s not as black and white as your experience either.

They think every other child has a diagnosis because that's what people say. Constantly mums say their child has autism or ADHD and they don't have a diagnosis. I've heard people irl say it.

I have heard people say that too but it doesn't necessarily mean they do have autism /Adhd some might be undiagnosed some might not.

Op she doesn't seem to understand why she can't go to grandma's though and as a result will be getting more and more angry and upset. I know you don't want to hurt her feelings but sometimes you have to explain to children 'When you last went to grandma's you broke a lot of her things and you also hurt her and that made her very upset and sad so that's why you can't go today'. She needs to link her actions with the consequences. I also don't think there is anything wrong with showing an emotional response to behaviour to some extent as they can easier understand their behaviour had resulted in a particular emotion from you.