I don't want my 5 year old anymore

[icann]

I'm using a throwaway. Judge me all you want but I need some serious advice

I have 2 children..one who is 5 and who just gone 3.
My 5 year old is going into year 1..strongly suspected ADHD or autism. But the channels of diagnosis move slow. I'm sure it will crop up but no I cannot afford private

Right where to start. She's aggressive. I'm covered in cuts and bruises and scratches. My 3 year old is the same. She attacks her or me for the slightest infraction. Hitting, biting, screaming. The abuse she gives me. She laughs while she's doing it like it's funny. It's not. My 3 year old is terrified of her.

She doesn't listen. Does what the hell she wants. Nothing I say works. Nothing I say sinks in.

She doesn't sleep. She's awake till half 11 plus most nights. We've had the same bedtime routine since she was like a baby. Nothing works. Story, bath. Doesn't sleep. Just awake. Screaming abuse and hitting me and kicking me.

Speaks to me like I'm a slave. Her attitude stinks.

Refuses to go to school. God knows how ill get her there next week. Every morning is a battle. I've tried having a routine, getting her uniform sorted. Nothing works.

My 3 year old is losing all the time. Days out ruined. Can't watch her programme, can't play with her toys, can't do anything for fear of getting hurt. I watch them both like a hawk but inevitably my 3 year old comes out worse.

I don't want to do this. I don't see why I should. Yes she's my daughter but unconditional love only goes so far. I feel like scooping my 3 year old up and going as far away as possible. Dad is on the scene but works 5 days a week. 10 to 12 hour days. He has the same behaviour..

I've got a black eye and my daughter is currently sat with another bite mark from her sister. What's she going to be like at 8? Or 10? Or 14? The gp put her on a waiting list. The wait in my area is up to 4 years. I can't do this. I am.so broken and I have a 3 year old to think of.

Please help

Masking is the new dyslexia. Everybody has it, apparently.

I suppose my children had it. One was very well behaved and pleasant at school and neither of those things at home. Too tired, too much demand placed on a 4 year old. Very sad all round.

This is intolerable.

If your husband bails because of this behaviour, {Many men do leave in these situations with a very difficult child as they ''can''} you will be literally stuck with dealing with her on your own with no one to help protect the little one.

Can you get an urgent referral to social services?

Maybe even consider ''Care''.

It is absolutely not more likely in this case.
Obviously a diagnosis is necessary but in the meantime OP needs to know what to do now.

Your earlier comment has been deleted.

Hint: That is because what you suggested then re physical force is wholly unacceptable.

I don't think OP is coping very well actually. In the same situation I'd put my hand up and say I wouldn't be coping either. Just because you're going through the day and firefighting doesn't mean you're coping well with the situation or that its sustainable. And how do you get a 3 year old to cope in that situation? Even if the violence halved, they're still going to be hyper vigilant through their formative years. Don't worry toddler, mumsnet have spoken, so now your job is to cope, chin up.

Even if I did all the things everyone has said, and even if there was improvement, it still sounds so hard. There would need to be some hard decisions to make, care being one of them. I'm just not that selfless that I could bear to be in OPs situation.

Hi @icann I'm sorry to hear things are so difficult.

I think the suggestion of following up the ND-aware sleep specialist someone recommended is a good one.

I think you could also try melatonin. You and the 5 year old must be beyond exhausted and no-one makes good decisions when they're exhausted. I have no idea why people are so up tight about melatonin in the UK. It's available over the counter in other countries.

I'm glad you've got good grandparents to help you.

This will pass. It will seem very slow, but it will pass.

Have you and DH tried one of you physically getting into bed with DD? She may be very afraid of sleeping alone?

For Gods sake OK....can you get GP to have the children for an hour tomorrow while you garner some support?

I believe you said the GP is useless. Start there, get to the surgery and demand to see another one ASAP. I presume you have paid into the system? You need help and fast.

Beating children was outlawed for a reason. Advocating the use of violence against a potentially disabled five year old is what got you deleted, not ‘left wing’ anything.

She does not want anyone in bed with her. She's never been a very affectionate child. She will physically push us away if we hug her too long. She wouldn't want us in bed with her.

She doesn't want to go out with me and dad. She wants to go to her grandparents with her younger sister. She doesn't want to miss out. Her grandparents won't have her In the house. I know it sounds horrid but she's broken so much of there stuff and hurt them. I can't tell her this. I wouldn't hurt her. Today is pretty much already ruined. She isn't going to want to do anything now her sister is getting something different.

I mean they might take her to the park or the shops. She isn't going anywhere majorly exciting. I've told my oldest today's her day and we can stay in and craft or we can go out. She likes choices but she doesn't want to. She's screaming at my husband now.

A child viciously attacking parents and siblings is not a wild child testing boundaries. She’s not a husky puppy. She’s a child who clearly needs some sort of intervention - be it via medication or therapy.

I know it’s easier to blame mother here because it’s the thing to do, but this child has been fundamentally let down by a medical system that is failing to recognize that this aberrant behavior is not developmentally appropriate.

Op - this isn’t your fault and you don’t deserve this.

You need to video this outbursts and keep a diary of when and how often she’s attacking you if your GP is useless. You need extrinsic evidence so they can’t just claim you’re an ineffective parent.

also consider bringing your husband to an appointment and having him say what’s happening - sometimes a dad explaining what is going on moves the needle more than mom.

My husband has booked the day off work Wednesday. I will need him to help me get her to school. There's no way this is going to be easy. I've also got her at the doctors Wednesday at 4 pm. I've been videoing this morning and yesterday. He's going to come to the doctors with us. My youngest is at her first day at nursery and her grandparents have agreed to pick her up from nursery. I'm sad I'm missing it but is what it is.

Are you joking ? How many times has this approach worked for you ? OP will likely be removed from the GP’s list for abusive behaviour if she does this.

icann Can you afford to go outside the system and get an OT in, someone who uses play therapy?

You need to prep for that appointment. Come prepared with notes about how disregualted her sleep is (ex she went to bed at 2 am 8 of the past 14 nights) and how often she is having violent tantrums. Write it down so you can remember.

Have you got some ear defenders for her? Maybe she'd like to wear them at home if she finds noise overstimulating. Even when out and about, if she wore them to the park she might find it easier. Maybe not or shell refuse but worth a try

We have lots of children who have a formal diagnosis of PDA profile within their ASD diagnosis, so I dont know where you're getting that from

Please stop suggesting care.

It is vanishingly unlikely this would meet the threshold for removing a child. Honestly, do people really think there is a queue of settings available?

The whole system (such as it is) is based around keeping families together.

OP, I'm sorry the behaviour has been at the grandparents also. That's tough.

What's the significance of Wednesday - is it the first day of school?

You can't be "formally diagnosed" with PDA in the UK. It's not in the DSM. Assessments might say "with PDA features".

Wednesday is her first day back at school. She's going into year 1. My husband had booked it off. She hates school. She hates going. It's also my youngest daughters first day at nursery. We are also dropping her off together and then when we pick the oldest from school she has the doctors.

So by politiely but firmly asking for a change of GP, she will be removed?

I know services are under pressure but really?

OP, you sound not in a good place at all.

The 3 year old will cope with nursery and being dropped off by GP. You can't do everything for everybody

Can you get to school and get a plan in place ? Before it kicks off on Wednesday?

Here's the info about PDA as a feature/profile of autism.

Sorry for the derail, OP.

www.pdasociety.org.uk/life-with-pda-menu/family-life-intro/diagnosing-pda-children/

Probably not relevant but a friend in a similar situation accessed help using Bupa - just mentioning it in case. Mind you I had AXA/PPP cover when we went through this, and it excluded absolutely everything to do with child mental health.

Regarding the credit card.

Something that is not generally known outside the SEND community is that having needs outside the norm in the UK is expensive. Very very expensive. And if you don't pay with money you pay with time.

We have children who on their formal diagnosis has PDA. Several of them over several years. Its there in black and white on their assessments and health records.

It's complex. Medical professionals disagree. It's similar to how you still see "Asperger's" on assessments and EHCPs sometimes.

I'm not an expert but the link I posted summarises the situation.

Medics aren't one unified lump but people with (often, strong) opinions.

I would be surprised if she was medicated at age 5. My dc had medication aged 8 and it really helped. However the side effects were worrying and they were taken off them.

My dc was very much like yours but even worse at school and they ended up running amok around the local area as they got older. It did not end well sorry to say as in their behaviour did not improve but deteriorated and they were out of school for a long time.

My dc did have various diagnoses but nobody was interested in videos or notes or photos of my bruises. You are on your own with much of it I’m afraid.