I don't want my 5 year old anymore

[icann]

I'm using a throwaway. Judge me all you want but I need some serious advice

I have 2 children..one who is 5 and who just gone 3.
My 5 year old is going into year 1..strongly suspected ADHD or autism. But the channels of diagnosis move slow. I'm sure it will crop up but no I cannot afford private

Right where to start. She's aggressive. I'm covered in cuts and bruises and scratches. My 3 year old is the same. She attacks her or me for the slightest infraction. Hitting, biting, screaming. The abuse she gives me. She laughs while she's doing it like it's funny. It's not. My 3 year old is terrified of her.

She doesn't listen. Does what the hell she wants. Nothing I say works. Nothing I say sinks in.

She doesn't sleep. She's awake till half 11 plus most nights. We've had the same bedtime routine since she was like a baby. Nothing works. Story, bath. Doesn't sleep. Just awake. Screaming abuse and hitting me and kicking me.

Speaks to me like I'm a slave. Her attitude stinks.

Refuses to go to school. God knows how ill get her there next week. Every morning is a battle. I've tried having a routine, getting her uniform sorted. Nothing works.

My 3 year old is losing all the time. Days out ruined. Can't watch her programme, can't play with her toys, can't do anything for fear of getting hurt. I watch them both like a hawk but inevitably my 3 year old comes out worse.

I don't want to do this. I don't see why I should. Yes she's my daughter but unconditional love only goes so far. I feel like scooping my 3 year old up and going as far away as possible. Dad is on the scene but works 5 days a week. 10 to 12 hour days. He has the same behaviour..

I've got a black eye and my daughter is currently sat with another bite mark from her sister. What's she going to be like at 8? Or 10? Or 14? The gp put her on a waiting list. The wait in my area is up to 4 years. I can't do this. I am.so broken and I have a 3 year old to think of.

Please help

But it sounds like to reach the threshold for a diagnosis you have to be completely resistant to virtually any kind of demand whatsoever. I agree with @Jifmicroliquid - the idea of these children entering adulthood in 10 years time is a real worry.

Exactly! And we are building resilience because we don't just remove all obstacles for DS and do help him to work through problems! But we approach it on his terms to lower anxiety. I have PDA and I manage a professional job hut I did walk out of my fair share of jobs when I was younger due to toxic management and I think that if I had been taught how to manage my emotions then I might not have been so impulsive. I manage demands every day but it does take it out of me and, since I've realised that, I can give myself time breaks with no demands to help. I am a fully independent functioning adult! I hope my son will be too but if he needs extra support, I am there for him. My having a low demand family home supports all of us, as I was trying to explain to the OP. It in no way means that we shelter each other from the realities of life. We just approach them as a team.

But it doesn’t though does it? None of these kids ever seem to be cured of their aggressive behaviour. At best it’s held at bay by meeting a series of demands they make.

I am diagnosed as having ASD.
So believe me, I know about the differences in cognitive function.

My DS is no longer challenging due to a low demand approach and using zones of regulation as a strategy to improve emotional understanding. He is diagnosed as asd with demand avoidance but is capable of functioning semi independently for his age. His lack of fine motor skills are more of a barrier to independence than his pda, to be honest, which we are working on

Threads where the OP is in parenting hell are really not the place for speculation on "children/parents these days"/"in my day they'd have got the slipper"/"rising tide of SEN will obliterate humanity as we know it" etc etc.

I/we are doing fine now but I was suicidal for a while when my DC was like this (thank God no sibling to hurt).

If you are open minded you will hear plenty of stories where children and parents learnt to manage better and the acute behaviour eventually improved. No need to catastophise.

Be mindful what you post.

But as the saying goes ‘if you’ve met one ND person you’ve met one ND person’. These types of behaviours are far more common now than they ever used to be. We see it on here time and time and time again - if you search for child aggression on this website, virtually every single thread is from the last 5 years. Endless posts about being attacked by teens through to toddlers, and endless responses saying they need to be assessed immediately. I have a horrible feeling there’s something we are all missing by instantly rushing to neurodiversity without taking the time to explore other causes first. If modern parenting helped then we wouldn’t be seeing this rise. I strongly suspect something else is at play, i would be interested to see if you agree.

Sorry this was to @JaneFallow

It is rubbish to say children don't overcome violent behaviour.

A research study I participated in found it tends to peak at 8 and recede by 10 as children gain maturity and communication skills.

As a neurodivergent person, who was once a struggling neurodivergent child, some of the responses on here are so awful, saddening and scary.

Hitting or shouting at an ND five year old? Shaming an ND child?

These things don’t work. They may temporarily get that child to repress issues so the parent is satisfied, but let me tell you they come out later. Sometimes in a very dangerous way - I’ve seen it and suffered from some aspects myself.

An ND person cannot control things in the same way, they don’t learn certain behaviours I’m in the same way. It takes the right care and support. They can overcome these things of course, once the crux of the issue is found.

So sad to read what some people are saying.

But before about 10-15 years ago where would you be hearing these stories? It's not people who've changed, it's that we can easily hear about it now.

Fair point.
I think I just get fed up of constantly being shot down when you dare to suggest that consequences for poor behaviour might actually be helpful.

But I realise that’s not what this thread is about so I will step away and wish OP well.

This website has been widely used since the late 2000s - 15 years plus. Virtually every single thread about aggressive or non verbal children are from the last 5 years. Go and look if you don’t believe me.

You aren't diagnosed with a PDA profile in the UK. You're simply diagnosed with autism following the ICD-11 diagnostic criteria, but it can be recognised at the point of diagnosis that behaviour may fall in line with pathological demand avoidance or another way to describe it is a pervasive drive for autonomy.

Most children with a PDA profile develop better coping strategies however the fight/flight/freeze response when faced with demands can still happen in adults with a PDA profile. It might look more subtle, like being chronically overwhelmed and argumentative, having over the top reactions to things, being perceived as a bit of a control freak and feeling extreme anxiety when things do not go as planned or things feel out of control.

You don't need to worry about these children entering adulthood because autism is not new and many autistic children have grown up to be adults and their childhood selves are not wholly representative for how they are as adults with more autonomy in their lives.

In OPs case, her child is 5. My child is also 5, autistic and whilst isn't particularly violent, he is wholly self lead, and this means he can, but won't follow adult lead instructions tasks or activities because the thing he needs is choice and he needs to believe they're his choices and not choices any one else has made.

I don't for a second believe that in 13 years time out of school he's going to be a bossy sofa surfing, side quest job kind of person because his needs will change over time and he will change as a person and his needs have been recognised and are accommodated which makes him feel safety and security.

Aggressive children and non-verbal children have been around for a long, long time. You can find various examples throughout history.

I remember watching a series on tv about kids who were abusing their parents, one was beating his mum. I was a teenager then and I’m 40 now.

MN threads are not representative.

I absolutely agree with this. It’s a balance for my child, with making school bearable otherwise I can’t get him in the door. He ends up self harming or shutting down. With the right support he thrives and is so hungry for knowledge.

Of course but nowhere near in the numbers we are seeing now. I’m not exaggerating when I say in our town parenting online group, every other post is about a child with behavioural difficulties who is being assessed for neurodiversity. It’s not a large town but there are multiple posts every single day. Probably 50-60% of the posts.

I agree with this. Parents aren't allowed to do anything these days, apart from talking with children about their feelings, without being called abusive. And there's a wonder why so many children have behavioural issues

I still haven’t seen any evidence for masking - the systematic review only says that adults who consider themselves autistic self report more “camouflage” activities.

And if behaviour is communication, the child is communicating that home is a problem, not school.

Most behavioural responses can be modified, so it’s a question of finding what strategies work at home for this particular family.

Consider forest school they are quite popular and maybe a family therapist. There is a reason of why she's acting like this. My kids are 5 and 3, they both hit each other and get into fights no matter how many times I tell them not to hit each other. They are also quite protective towards each other and have a strong bond. But I dont feel like the way you do. Take her to swimming and other things that would tire out it seems like she has pent up energy

@Tulipsareredvioletsarebue I tagged MNHQ so that they could ask OP whether she'd like to move to SN boards. Judging by the amount of fucking stupid comments on here by so many people who have not a clue about dealing with a neurotypical child, it seemed to me that she'd get a much more balanced and experienced response. I hope that helps.

So interesting you should say this...A teacher I met by chance {after 20 yrs} has 5 children and several Grandchildren said the ''seeking a diagnosis'' is off the charts nowadays.

She said something is fundamentally different, but she's taught for decades and has seen a marked decline in behaviours in recent years.

It could be due to older parental age, many more premature babies surviving, something in our diets - something definitely {In UK at any rate} seems to have caused a huge upswing in ''poor behaviours''.

Children starting school in nappies - That never used to be the case.

It would be interesting to see if other Countries had the same ''issues''.

Neurodivergent not neurotypical. My anger at some of the comments on this thread has addled my brain.

What did you do when she punched you for taking the spaghetti bol away? Immediately afterwards?

I think that's fair enough @Jifmicroliquid.

I am reasonably strict as a parent though.

There was simply nothing you could threaten my DC with at age 5-7 that would actually have had an effect - for one thing I don't believe she was choosing to behave the way she was. I'm not sure she even remembered a lot of it. It was total amygdala hijack.

Or Hulk! Smash!

I think we are forgetting that in the last 5 years we had covid lockdowns so there's been tonnes of kids that haven't been able to socialise at a fairly crucial developmental age. Also cost of living shooting up so more people working longer hours and less energy to focus on or cope with aggressive behaviour.