I don't want my 5 year old anymore

[icann]

I'm using a throwaway. Judge me all you want but I need some serious advice

I have 2 children..one who is 5 and who just gone 3.
My 5 year old is going into year 1..strongly suspected ADHD or autism. But the channels of diagnosis move slow. I'm sure it will crop up but no I cannot afford private

Right where to start. She's aggressive. I'm covered in cuts and bruises and scratches. My 3 year old is the same. She attacks her or me for the slightest infraction. Hitting, biting, screaming. The abuse she gives me. She laughs while she's doing it like it's funny. It's not. My 3 year old is terrified of her.

She doesn't listen. Does what the hell she wants. Nothing I say works. Nothing I say sinks in.

She doesn't sleep. She's awake till half 11 plus most nights. We've had the same bedtime routine since she was like a baby. Nothing works. Story, bath. Doesn't sleep. Just awake. Screaming abuse and hitting me and kicking me.

Speaks to me like I'm a slave. Her attitude stinks.

Refuses to go to school. God knows how ill get her there next week. Every morning is a battle. I've tried having a routine, getting her uniform sorted. Nothing works.

My 3 year old is losing all the time. Days out ruined. Can't watch her programme, can't play with her toys, can't do anything for fear of getting hurt. I watch them both like a hawk but inevitably my 3 year old comes out worse.

I don't want to do this. I don't see why I should. Yes she's my daughter but unconditional love only goes so far. I feel like scooping my 3 year old up and going as far away as possible. Dad is on the scene but works 5 days a week. 10 to 12 hour days. He has the same behaviour..

I've got a black eye and my daughter is currently sat with another bite mark from her sister. What's she going to be like at 8? Or 10? Or 14? The gp put her on a waiting list. The wait in my area is up to 4 years. I can't do this. I am.so broken and I have a 3 year old to think of.

Please help

I agree. I have a friend who used to work in SEN schools but became frustrated and left for the reasons you state - if a child had a problem, rather than saying ‘how can we work through this’, they’d just say ‘ok well we will remove the obstacle then’. He said it was lowering and lowering the kids’ tolerance to real life events and he cannot imagine what will happen when they turn 18 - essentially a life of dependence on the stretched social care system or crime awaits. It’s devastating - there’s been a huge wrong turn with all this, but nobody will discuss it.

Today she's had

Breakfast
Half a piece of toast with butter and a dairyylea triangle, a banana and a handful of grapes.
Mid morning snack was some rice cakes and half a pear
Dinner was pasta with cheese and cucumber. Ate none of. Threw the bowl
I bought the ice cream in the park. Maybe a lick if that
Tea was spaghetti bolognese. Ate none. Tipped her plate on the table. Punched me for taking it away.

Do you have any extended family? Does she behave at school? If she does, then I know it's frowned upon nowadays but you could embarrass her about her behaviour in front of people that she'd like to impress (adults i.e Grandma, teacher etc) Shame is a powerful motivator.

OP, I would suggest looking into PDA- there is a fantastic channel on youtube called PDAdad or something similar, and the wealth of knowledge this man has about autism and PDA is priceless.
https://www.youtube.com/c/PDADadUKUnderstandAutismandPDA

You really need to step away from this you are not helping with your ill informed ridiculous over the top suggestions.

OMG no please do not do this OP...

@icann I have no advice but just wanted to send you love and support. I know that won't help but I'm thinking of you all and I really do hope it gets better.

Torture a hostage FGS

Really hoping the OP is reading the tonne of great advice and hand holding and strength and ignoring the trolls. There's some amazing people on this thread and fantastic collective knowledge. That's the bit to give weight to!

I don't really know much about parenting adhd kids op but I have adhd myself and so could maybe give you some insight into it maybe and what i think might have worked for me? Firstly I simply could not cope with being out every single day. I might be bored with work / routine and I might be quite dramatic about saying I am bored but if I didn't have a day of nothing I'd be so irritable it would be beyond belief. This isn't energy you can run off its nerves. If she likes crafty things maybe get her some colouring books / sticker books, nice new pencils and a quiet corner so she can just zone out a bit. Don't make it too complicated or structured she needs to quiet her brain down a bit and feeling like she had to follow a plan or do things 'right' adds more stress.

Re sleep, I have always had odd sleep patterns. As I child I was pretty passive so I didn't argue but I'd be reading by a torch under the covers until very late and quite often having a nap after school to make up the sleep. Is it worth trying just not fighting about this for a while and trying to get her some sleep earlier in the day instead? If she isn't going to bed till 11 anyway you are both just going to end up exhausted and irritable.

Re punishments mine were always immediate. I would think the most suitable thing now would be naughty step / stool ideally somewhere quiet and very boring. If she is adhd then being bored and having no stimulation will be a good deterrent. I don't think having something confiscated would have done very much to be honest. If something is out of sight I basically forget it exists so I wouldn't have been that upset about missing it for more than a few seconds really.

I don't know if any of this helps, hopefully some of it might be useful.

I’m so sorry that you are all going through this - it sounds incredibly difficult. You and your husband are doing your best in a situation where anyone would struggle. Going back to GP is a really good idea, as well as logging all the incidents. There are groups that offer support for parents being abused by their children - RISE UK and PEGS - they will hopefully be able to offer you advice and help. Wishing you all the best.

Of course I can empathise with the little one. My own younger children have experienced this kind of behaviour from their older sister. What stopped it (mostly; we have occasional meltdowns still) was working out WHY it was happening, understanding the behaviour and her needs, and changing the way we did things (following advice on the PDA website). And now DD can (mostly) stop the meltdowns before they happen and her sisters don't need to sit inside their rooms against their doors any more to be safe while I try to stop DD hurting them.

I've been there. I know what helped ALL of my children. My younger two didn't want their sister to be gone; they wanted her to be with them.

The advice from many people on this thread will help the whole family, which should surely be the aim here. This is a five year old. She's tiny. Her little sister is tiny. They're both tiny, precious children who BOTH deserve a chance. The five year old isn't evil. Her parents aren't incapable. They need support and advice, not chastising.

Ok, could she be anaemic or very low in vitamin D? It sounds like she is getting very little protein and iron. Iron and Vitamin D are hugely linked to mental health regulation and mood.

www.nurturechildrenshealth.com/blog/the-impact-of-iron-deficiency-in-childhood/

OP, it sounds like you are doing everything you can, eg dance lessons for your 5 yr old. A pp upthread suggested tiring her out with activities, but i believe the minimum age for a running/athletic club is 9 years for the under 11 activities. If she just had an activity to focus on for a hobby, but she is still so young.
No advice except I hope you can get some practical help, I was in despair when I read you have a 4 year wait for professional help.

Would sincerely recommend taking a 'noticing the positives wherever possible ' rather than making anyone feel worse about behaviour they have not yet learned to control. Honestly the kid is probably believing she's a hideous person enough already (in my experience) without anything like this adding to it.

When DS lacks impulse control and his aggressive behaviour takes hold I tend to approach with empathy 'a person can feel pretty terrible about themselves when they've behaved in a way which hurts someone they love' and more often than not that takes all the wind out of his sails and he is so remorseful. We then work together to think of what we could say/do to make it up to the person who is hurt. Took us a while to get to this stage but it feels a darn sight more supportive than shaming. It's giving him tools to use for life rather than making him feel like there's a part of him to be embarrassed about.

How will this help exactly??.

Yes op, sounds like pda.
Sounds like spd too op - refusing the food could be linked to the demand avoidance and also sensory processing of foods.

What happens if you ask her what foods she would like and leaving out a selection for her to grab when she wants to. You can ‘hide’ goodness in certain foods. My son likes supermarket tomato soup and I blend some vegetables and lentils into it - just a small amount so he can’t tell.

You probably need to be way more stern with your 5y old.
For a lot of children "gentle parenting" simply does not work. Same way, some kidds suffer when you even raise your voice at them.

My first DS is very fiery character.
I just drag him to his bed and order him (put him in place if needed) untill he is still there. And I force him to stay there for the number of minutes equal his age.
It works quite well.

Hurting others is unaceptable and you need to make her understand that.
Discioline is not easy but you cannot sweetalk most toodlers/preschool children into doing stuff. You can do that with very gentle characters.

Very well said!!

Absolutely, the person I quoted seemingly have no experience of SEN and probably not much experience with children in general.

Video her outbursts. If the school said she's fine professionals will not believe you so you need video proof

Hello Op, I’m a nurse and have worked in psychiatric care with children. First off, I’m sorry so many posters are piling on with the screen time and junk food, and your parenting (stickers and consequences!) This isn’t your fault and, I would guess, indicates that your DD is likely a bit neurodiverse and may have other things going on (perhaps oppositional behaviour disorder or similar).

im sorry everyone is blaming you—this is not your fault or a result of your parenting. I’ve seen many children who are similar and often do well with medication, some do go on to live in supervised homes because it’s not safe for the e family to have them home anymore. I hope you are able to feel safe and everyone gets the care that they need. Please be gentle with yourself. 💐

Could you go over the rules again - no hitting, say nice words etc and say this is the same rule for everyone.
Any negative behaviour immediate consequence e.g. time out and repeat. Anything positive put a sticker on the chart, make it ridiculously easy to start with to get rewards (same for the 3 year old).

You both have to find a way to keep the 3 year old safe.

Speak to school, be pushy, ask for help. Could they talk to her about how she needs to treat her sister?

I hope you find help for your past. It seems this has triggered you. The op is getting help and is obviously proactive as we can see from all the responses.