I don't want my 5 year old anymore

[icann]

I'm using a throwaway. Judge me all you want but I need some serious advice

I have 2 children..one who is 5 and who just gone 3.
My 5 year old is going into year 1..strongly suspected ADHD or autism. But the channels of diagnosis move slow. I'm sure it will crop up but no I cannot afford private

Right where to start. She's aggressive. I'm covered in cuts and bruises and scratches. My 3 year old is the same. She attacks her or me for the slightest infraction. Hitting, biting, screaming. The abuse she gives me. She laughs while she's doing it like it's funny. It's not. My 3 year old is terrified of her.

She doesn't listen. Does what the hell she wants. Nothing I say works. Nothing I say sinks in.

She doesn't sleep. She's awake till half 11 plus most nights. We've had the same bedtime routine since she was like a baby. Nothing works. Story, bath. Doesn't sleep. Just awake. Screaming abuse and hitting me and kicking me.

Speaks to me like I'm a slave. Her attitude stinks.

Refuses to go to school. God knows how ill get her there next week. Every morning is a battle. I've tried having a routine, getting her uniform sorted. Nothing works.

My 3 year old is losing all the time. Days out ruined. Can't watch her programme, can't play with her toys, can't do anything for fear of getting hurt. I watch them both like a hawk but inevitably my 3 year old comes out worse.

I don't want to do this. I don't see why I should. Yes she's my daughter but unconditional love only goes so far. I feel like scooping my 3 year old up and going as far away as possible. Dad is on the scene but works 5 days a week. 10 to 12 hour days. He has the same behaviour..

I've got a black eye and my daughter is currently sat with another bite mark from her sister. What's she going to be like at 8? Or 10? Or 14? The gp put her on a waiting list. The wait in my area is up to 4 years. I can't do this. I am.so broken and I have a 3 year old to think of.

Please help

Just wanted to add this about social services,a friend of mine had a child(f) about the same age as yours doing pretty much the same things you describe! There were 2 other siblings 1 younger 1 a bit older both(m), my friend struggled for years with the most disturbing behaviour and nothing seemed to help! She rang social services about this and explained the situation and asked for respite for just a few days after a few months ss agreed,on the day of pick-up for respite they removed all 3 children!

@shockeditellyou

You are really suggesting that masking isn’t real?

Until you are the parent of a child who has complex needs I think you should also sit down and listen might I remind you the child is FIVE

The child is FIVE not an abuser .

No one is saying that what the 5-year-old is doing is ok. No one. What people are saying is that there's a reason for her behaviour, and that there are different things the OP can try to help her (and her younger child). You're reading stuff that isn't there and I think you need to step away because your comments are likely to be making the OP feel worse, not helping.

Me and my husband are a team. We will not be splitting up and taking 1 child each. Never mind financially that's not a thing

I didn’t say you should split up, I just wondered if it was possible to take on a very cheap rental (if such a thing exists in your part of the country) of 1 bed flat so your youngest can stay there with one of you at least some of the week and escape the abuse.

I suggest stickers for: Playing nicely for half an hour, responding kindly to a request, asking nicely for something she wants. Not hitting her sister is too vague and negative. One for each please and each thank you, yes. Make your sticker chart more achievable and measureable with a tangible reward once she has got 5 stickers - ipad time etc. I feel you have got stuck in a negative loop.

I think that more positive reinforcement may help. So don’t let her have any treats at all. Just fruit/ veg and good meals.

Find some really small things that she does that are good and praise and more praise. Then build up to occasional sweets/ ice cream.Model with your younger child. If they show good behaviour you reward she may seek to do the same.

Try time in rather the time out. Playing really low level games with balloons if she tolerates them or cooking ingredients, sand or water. Does she like a lot of sensory play? Good luck.

Sorry forgot to tag you in @icann x

These sound like some good first steps, OP.

She's masking at school :-( definitely sounds like PDA. try melatonin gummies (biovea or amazon start just 1mg). Probiotic gummies over 50billion cfu, magnesium gummies (novomins are good) im suggesting gummies as they are nice and usually easy to offer.
Need to then look at B6 (P5P version), l-carnitine. Loads more after that...It's a long hard slog :-(

Ok and the junk food. I home cook pretty much all the time. However yes I do have crisps in and it's been warm so yes I do have ice lollies in. Again it's finding that balance. I have 2 children. I don't want to take away the simple pleasure of having an ice lolly on a hot day.

I've never noticed a change in her behaviour whatever she eats. She just demands junk all yje time. She doesn't get it. She just won't eat the meals I actually cook

And to the poster who says she gets 7 to 8 hours sleep a day, sorry I should have clarified, half 11 is the earliest she drops. We can be up till half 2 to 4 sometimes. And if she does drop earlier she's up every hour. The times she is awake fighting it she's screaming and kicking and shouting whichever parent she can get to

The child is FIVE !!!

Reach out to school for behaviour support.
How is she at school?
Call duty social worker children with disabilities team

Hello,
My daughter has mild ADHD and I recognize some of her behaviour from your post, but of course it might be something else. The sleeping problem sounds really really tough.
First of all, you can't expect her to react as a neurotypical child, she can't do it (for the moment), it's not HER fault and it's not YOUR fault either.
Many parents of neurotypical children will give (inappropriate) advice and pass judgment . You will have to learn to ignore. For example, there are many instances when it's completely counterproductive to give consequence to child with adhd.
Try to get an appointment with your GP to have useful information and advice. Melatonin really helps some children.
Don't despair, things will get better

Just a thought based on your later post - my friend with a similar sounding child (after the child was diagnosed with ASD) was told that instead of telling her in advance of all plans, it might be better to just tell her what the immediate next thing is. For some children with ASD apparently the prospect of going to the park then going to the shop then seeing auntie Laura” etc can add to the stress building up in their heads. Instead she started just saying “right x we’re off to the park now”. Counterintuitive but it seems to help.

I see your point and I also see @x2boys point, because you’re coming at this from 2 different positions.

I do know what you mean - I have to be honest, it does seem that where (likely) neurodivergence is involved, an entire family is expected to endure endless horrific abuse to accommodate that 1 person (who isn’t even happy themselves by all accounts). Some of the accounts on here are heartbreaking, parents and siblings essentially losing all quality of life to support just 1 family member. And where there are small children involved, well it’s intolerable.

I also understand @x2boys that as a parent putting a child in care is basically also intolerable and MUCH easier said than done.

My feelings are that eventually there will HAVE to be some kind of widespread government programme to open residential homes en masse as the number of children with this sort of behaviour just seems to be mind blowing. Leaving families to cope is inhuman.

If your three yr old goes into playgroup like this they will report to social services and you will get a visit hopefully that will be a good thing as they may be able to offer you some help. I know you probably don't want to but for the sake of the younger one the gp may refer you for medication which can really help some children with autism and adhd. They can also prescribe sleep meds. Sorry this is so hard. Do they have grandparents that could help atall. Your youngest needs a break from this.

One of the reasons I grew so disillusioned with teaching was that I felt that a lot of SEN children were actually being failed in the long run.
Things were adapted and changed for them in school- time out passes, exams sat in quiet rooms, they could leave a lesson at any time to go and do colouring in the SEN base…
Then they turned 18 and we chucked them out into the world with little to no idea of how to get by in society and deal with the demands of life, employment etc.

I predict a massive crisis in the not-so-far off future with a lot of SEN adults who cannot function in the normal world.

PDA wasn’t known about when I was a child, but having looked into it as an autistic person, I’m fairly sure I had this as I fit pretty much every sign of it. I still struggle to be told what to do, but I was given the tools to learn to deal with it when I was young so I have adapted.

It is probably one of the reasons that I have found self-employment better for me.

Ok let’s strip this down. So she IS eating junk, she refuses anything you cook, but you don’t think that may be contributing to her behaviour? This really isn’t a criticism but can you post what she has eaten today? Sometimes until you see things written down you may not see there is an issue. And food is massively linked to behavioural issues.

It isn’t all right but your posts here are not helping and in fact are harmful. They are more likely to make the OP walk away from the thread. If you sincerely want to help the three year old then the OP needs help, and that doesn’t come from endlessly shouting at her that she needs to do the impossible.

Video her behaviour show school and gp
Ask school for home behaviour support visit