I don't want my 5 year old anymore

[icann]

I'm using a throwaway. Judge me all you want but I need some serious advice

I have 2 children..one who is 5 and who just gone 3.
My 5 year old is going into year 1..strongly suspected ADHD or autism. But the channels of diagnosis move slow. I'm sure it will crop up but no I cannot afford private

Right where to start. She's aggressive. I'm covered in cuts and bruises and scratches. My 3 year old is the same. She attacks her or me for the slightest infraction. Hitting, biting, screaming. The abuse she gives me. She laughs while she's doing it like it's funny. It's not. My 3 year old is terrified of her.

She doesn't listen. Does what the hell she wants. Nothing I say works. Nothing I say sinks in.

She doesn't sleep. She's awake till half 11 plus most nights. We've had the same bedtime routine since she was like a baby. Nothing works. Story, bath. Doesn't sleep. Just awake. Screaming abuse and hitting me and kicking me.

Speaks to me like I'm a slave. Her attitude stinks.

Refuses to go to school. God knows how ill get her there next week. Every morning is a battle. I've tried having a routine, getting her uniform sorted. Nothing works.

My 3 year old is losing all the time. Days out ruined. Can't watch her programme, can't play with her toys, can't do anything for fear of getting hurt. I watch them both like a hawk but inevitably my 3 year old comes out worse.

I don't want to do this. I don't see why I should. Yes she's my daughter but unconditional love only goes so far. I feel like scooping my 3 year old up and going as far away as possible. Dad is on the scene but works 5 days a week. 10 to 12 hour days. He has the same behaviour..

I've got a black eye and my daughter is currently sat with another bite mark from her sister. What's she going to be like at 8? Or 10? Or 14? The gp put her on a waiting list. The wait in my area is up to 4 years. I can't do this. I am.so broken and I have a 3 year old to think of.

Please help

Have you read The Explosive Child? So many tips and relatable situations in there and step by step instructions on how to deal with them. Aimed at parents of children with children with behaviour that challenges, focussed on the solutions rather than the diagnoses (but aimed at parents of ASD/ADHD kids)

Why does the consequence have to be taking something away? Personally, I don’t agree with taking toys away but my kids still have rules and consequences.
Removing your daughter for safety isn’t a punishment.
either way, sounds like 2 things are needed here - medical help and some sort of parenting help to give you more developed skills. Are you able to go back to the gp for these?

It’s unlikely to be something that “school do that works” in my opinion, it’s that she feels overwhelmed at school and has to hold it all in and is terrified. Then at home she feels safe to communicate by her behaviour that she’s really struggling.

All the people saying you can’t parent a SEN child with consequences etc. I beg to differ. Actually, some ASD children respond very well to the concept of consequences for their actions. You just have to get the consequence appropriate and stick to it.
Want to know how I know this? Because I was the SEN child parented the same as any other, because back then that was the done thing.

And actually, there were just as many SEN kids around then, it’s just most people had no idea. So they parented them normally and in the majority of cases, the child got on just fine.

I do worry that we have become so aware of SEN (obviously a good thing), that people automatically use it as an excuse as to why normal parenting techniques don’t work. They say they try standard parenting and it makes things worse. Well yes, often consequences to poor behaviour makes things worse for a while, because its boundaries your child doesn’t like, but you have to stick at it. You are not going to see the result straight away, and your child might explode initially- for weeks even, but you stay firm and rigid and lay out your rules and boundaries and the majority will learn to respect them. It’s not an instant process, and I think that’s why so many parents give up and decide their child can’t cope with it. But it’s how schools deal with these children (how many times have we heard “he’s fine at school, I don’t know what I’m doing wrong”).

Fully prepared to be lynched here, but I do feel I am somewhat qualified to comment, given I have ASD and I was also a teacher who dealt with lots of SEN children.

I wish you well OP, whatever you decide x

So true my son is14 now severely autistic, extremely challenging etc we do get respite now ,we get two over nights a month and holiday and weekend club, but his needs are extremely complex and its taken years to get this level of respite ,its laughable that people think you can just ask for it and get it ,if only.

This is an excellent post, OP needs a way for her and her husband to keep their children and themselves safe. Practical solutions about how to manage the safety and wellbeing in the house.

@Rycbar I'm not sure if she is overstimulated. She hates being inside the house. Like vocally tells me and anyone who listens she hates being inside. So I don't know if it would help being inside

To the poster who asked what brings her joy. She loves crafts. We do a lot of crafting. She can be so kind. She has on many an occasion given her younger sister her coat incase she's cold and let her snuggle her special teddy.
She loves the night sky and loves swimming and dancing. She loves singing and all things disney

I have read your posts OP but not all the others. I can see you’ve been told to access Roghtt to choose, do this. If your GP won’t make a referral get a different GP and keep changing until you get one
contact CAPA first response and do a self referral, this will probably be life changing for you guys https://capafirstresponse.org they deal with issues from really young kids
you are not going to be able to punish or reward your way out of this and neither do you have to, it’s not going to help, probably it will just make things worse.
Check out low demand parenting , please note, this is not no demand parenting, it’s low demand and I have no doubt it will be another game changer for you. Naomi fisher is amazing, she has many webinar series you can pay to access but I know she can be found on YouTube and podcasts.
It’s understandable you feel like you want to get away from her, you are overwhelmed. All of this can be addressed, you just need the right help and the right approach.
I would strongly recommend presuming she will be diagnosed, so you can start researching strategies, the strategies advised for neurodiverse Kids will generally work with any kid, so it’s unlikely you will cause harm doing this.
hang in there, it will be ok honestly, don’t worry about tomorrows and what ifs about the future, you’re in crisis- just focus on today

@x2boys we’ve been on threads together so many times saying this

The other much trotted out myth is that residential schools for children with disabilities are freely available up and down the country and that after a few tears with SS you will wave your child off with a suitcase and a teddy.

I would suggest speaking again to the school SENCO about this - really share your worries. I know school are saying she's OK at school but she could well be masking if it is autism and /or PDA. I'm only suggesting this as i've had few kids i've taught (admittedly year 5 usually) who didn't come to my class with diagnosed conditions - one was bit away with fairies i was told, one quite anxious etc. It was only when parents told us in detail of behaviour at home lo and behold, after much pushing from me, job share teacher and senco to get things moving, child A diagnosed ADD, 2nd child likely Autism (still awaiting official diagnosis but we now use strategies to help him we use with our other kids with autism). Also go back to the GP and say, yes i want them put forward for assessment - it helps show that you as a parent are exploring all routes. It must be very tough and sorry it is so difficult.

Yeah that advice is adding petrol to a fire I think.
The punishments and shouting will just dysregulate her more

I’ve been there. I have three autistic sons and things are not too bad now they are all adults but I have been through absolute hell. People going on about consequences just don’t get it. They don’t get how you just don’t have it in you half the time because you’re just trying to get through the day minute by minute. In fact, I find it patronising as hell tbh.

My advice is to get all the help you can. Get social services involved and dont be afraid of them. I don’t know what your finances are but I paid for a bit of help over the years to take the edge off, if not childcare then cleaning etc. I dropped my kids off at breakfast clubs and had them at afterschool clubs. Although they often go thrown out.

I hope things get better for you. No judgement from me. I couldnt cope with my second son and he went to live with his dad from about 13.

This x1000

Its really important for children with ASD and ADHD to have appropriate, clear, consistent boundaries and expectations and that includes consequences, both positive and negative. Many children with ASD and ADHD can work to learning and managing expectations and consequences. Its disabling to suggest otherwise.

There are always some that genuinely cant but this blanket approach now of expecting children to not respond, not understand, not be incentivised is disempowering to them and society

Remembering those beautiful things are what gets you through. I made my girls a wee poster of their characteristics, things like "loving" "caring" "funny", and DD1 (my PDAer) found such joy in it. It helped her remember that actually she's not a bad kid, she just struggles with her emotions sometimes.

Make sure you tell your DD when she's loving, when she does something caring for her little sister. Tell her you love hearing her sing, seeing her dance. Make sure she knows that you see the little lovely moments.

Zero judgement from me OP. This isn’t parenting, this isn’t family life. It’s being held to ransom in your own home by a small child with atrocious behavior. Big hugs to you and your toddler.

That's great for you and your kids but not really relevant to the OP.

She's clearly dealing with an overstimulated child and adding extra unnecessary stimulation. I wasn't blaming her, just pointing out a correlation. And backing that up with evidence of my own child. Good for you and your easy TV watching children, some of us have it harder.

The title was very dramatic

I love her. I love seeing her sing. And listening to her talk to the fish we have. I love watching her mother her baby sister and read her the books she's got from school. Telling her all the things she is going to do at nursery and how she's going to miss her.
I just can't live with this behaviour anymore. She is part of the family. But at the same time I have a 3 year old. And she deserves a home. A safe home. And I feel like no matter what I do I'm letting someone down

Oh god this, I cant tell you the number of children we have had excluded from 'specialist' schools. They wont and dont deal with violence and aggression either.

Sorry but your talking crap ,social services are not going to hand out respite care just because someone asks for it and certainly not daily my son goes to a school for children with severe and profound learning disabilities, these are children with the most complex ,needs he's only Been getting overnight respite for a few month hes 14 and it's,twice a month

Where does she get the swearing from, at 5?

Are there swimming or dance clubs locally that she could do? Relaxed ones rather than aiming for badges/exams etc. This might help to ease the stress of the school day so she doesn't take it out on all of you in the evenings. Night sky - risky but what about a basic telescope? If she's not going to sleep anyway, at least she can do something that makes her happy.

None of the children I have observed in school are in any way terrified - I’ve seen terrified children and they aren’t able to hide their terrror. I think many children do better in a well structured environment where they are part of a crowd, and not under the (sometimes) intense scrutiny of a tight nuclear family where they are the “bad” one.

I don’t think I have ever seen robust evidence for masking as a phenomenon, and find it interesting that when children that are doing okay in school but not at home, the default assumption is nowadays that they are somehow so terrified of repercussions and not fitting in at school and “masking”, and not that there is something at home that is not working for them.

I really feel for you, this sounds absolutely awful and you are very valid in feeling resentful. Imo, I would take out a loan anyway I could to pay for a private diagnosis. This girl needs meds before she burns down every bridge she has. Some people may think that is extreme, but seeing as she is physically hurting you and your 3yo daily, this needs addressing asap. If it's ADHD, meds will help greatly. If it's Autism, you will gain the knowledge on a way to combat this that actually works!

Good luck OP!

Embrace the things she loves - e.g. can you set up a little table or an area of a room that has a stack of paper, pens, notebooks, children's scissors, chalk, stickers etc that she can access as much as she likes, just for her. My 5 yr old DD can be challenging at times but loves to sit and do things like this - even if she's just cutting up bits of paper for an hour and its going all over the floor, I encourage it because she's intensely focused and enjoying herself, and she's calm whilst she's doing it.

Have music playing in the house rather than TV perhaps.

Pardon?