I don't want my 5 year old anymore

[icann]

I'm using a throwaway. Judge me all you want but I need some serious advice

I have 2 children..one who is 5 and who just gone 3.
My 5 year old is going into year 1..strongly suspected ADHD or autism. But the channels of diagnosis move slow. I'm sure it will crop up but no I cannot afford private

Right where to start. She's aggressive. I'm covered in cuts and bruises and scratches. My 3 year old is the same. She attacks her or me for the slightest infraction. Hitting, biting, screaming. The abuse she gives me. She laughs while she's doing it like it's funny. It's not. My 3 year old is terrified of her.

She doesn't listen. Does what the hell she wants. Nothing I say works. Nothing I say sinks in.

She doesn't sleep. She's awake till half 11 plus most nights. We've had the same bedtime routine since she was like a baby. Nothing works. Story, bath. Doesn't sleep. Just awake. Screaming abuse and hitting me and kicking me.

Speaks to me like I'm a slave. Her attitude stinks.

Refuses to go to school. God knows how ill get her there next week. Every morning is a battle. I've tried having a routine, getting her uniform sorted. Nothing works.

My 3 year old is losing all the time. Days out ruined. Can't watch her programme, can't play with her toys, can't do anything for fear of getting hurt. I watch them both like a hawk but inevitably my 3 year old comes out worse.

I don't want to do this. I don't see why I should. Yes she's my daughter but unconditional love only goes so far. I feel like scooping my 3 year old up and going as far away as possible. Dad is on the scene but works 5 days a week. 10 to 12 hour days. He has the same behaviour..

I've got a black eye and my daughter is currently sat with another bite mark from her sister. What's she going to be like at 8? Or 10? Or 14? The gp put her on a waiting list. The wait in my area is up to 4 years. I can't do this. I am.so broken and I have a 3 year old to think of.

Please help

I'm sure you mean we'll but you cannot promise anything every child is different whatcwork for one child doesn't for another. For some parents it's just a long hard slog achieving very little.

Could you try her with some kids magnesium? You can get tasty chews that she might like as a sweetie (or two) after dinner/before bed.

I’m so sorry for the overwhelm and frustration and exhaustion you’re experiencing. I sometimes think parents of children who have special needs or who are highly sensitive/extraordinarily demanding require time out to grieve for the loss of their expectations of what parenthood would be like. This is so far from what you imagined 💔

We got rid of our TV completely when we realised it was causing behavioural problems. Even the control issues the 5 year old is exerting over programme choice is just another thing you don’t need to be adjudicating / on edge about. So just get rid of the tv.

Like others have said, I’ve noticed big changes with increased physical activity and outside time, for my oldest. Does she ride a bike or scooter? Can she swim?

i have no good advice but it sounds like you’re all stuck in a place you don’t want to be. It must be scary for both of you - how deep your loathing of this situation is, and how deep her panic must be that she can control the whole mood of the house. I hope you can get some special support soon.

This

be strict. Take out sugars.

I feel you. My daughter was like this from 4….shes got adhd. It was hell. Pure hell….

we home educate because of how bad school was for her and to be honest she has flourished more than ever.

rules have to be the same. Never deviate

No matter of I could afford it or not, I’d find the money and trying to get answers for my child’s behaviour would be my priority

Look up PDA, it often goes hand in hand with autism.
My 13yr old is being assessed for both, the demanding attitude and speaking to you like a slave is very much how mine is with me, it's hellish at times but once you understand it's actually not her fault and why her brain responds this way it can help you deal with it a little better (it's still not easy and trust me, I've felt the way you do many times but we keep on battling through)

And you can't just ask for respite care, it's taken me 14 years to get a reasonable amount of respite for my severely autistic son.

@icann you're not failing, please don’t feel you are. You’re doing you’re best in tough circumstances without professional help, which it really sounds like your family need to help navigate this.

So easy to say when it's not you or your child in this situation.

What does she enjoy doing? What gives her joy?

Icann, I have a taste of what you are going through, some days it's fucking demoralising.
My middle one is 28 months old, had a few signs he wasn't quite like other children, but it seemed manageable, youngest DS is 6 months old, and his brother tries to hurt him given any opportunity to do so.

Sounds like your DH is off work tomorrow? It's a great day for a fresh start and a bit of a positive outlook.

What does DD find calming? For instance my middle DS is a water baby, if I see the warning signs that he's going to kick off, I can often just spin the situation enough that I can get him to the sink, or to a water toy...something that he can get lost in.
He's also a lover of watching nursery rhymes on TV.

With bed, if she's not going to sleep, don't force it, honestly, just do whatever you can do to make the evening go by. I've had to give up with DS because all it does is induce screaming and kicking and it was enough to make me lose the will to live. We're lucky to get between 10pm and 6am with 2 waking in the night. Even luckier if none of them are him actually up to play!

In your position, I would repeatedly go to the GP with her, especially with your black eye, she's so aggressive!
Also, yo usay you're from a poorer area, do you have good sure start centres nearby? They are a mine of support and can really help with referrals.
Also, speak with autismcgroips for kids, they'll be an excellent option for support and other parents will understand.

Look up the parent carer forum in your borough and ask for advice and join it. As others have suggested, look up.PDA.

I'm so sorry that you are going through this. No words of advice as I am sure that you have tried everything. Just a handhold. My son isn't the easiest either and it can be quite a lonely place to be with no reassurances that things will get better ❤️

Yes we do leave the house a lot. She hates being in the house. Going home and being in the house is a punishment. We discuss the night before what we're going to do. She has input. It's never sprung on her out of the blow. We rarely go anywhere extravagant. Can't afford it. It's usually the park, softplay, gardens. Kids stuff.

As for consequences which I've mentioned. She has nothing I can really take away. I move her away from.her sister and me but that's more a safety thing than a consequence..

Yes this is what I was recommended by the school senco while we awaited the paediatric appointment for melatonin.

magnesium is supposed to be good for sleep health and also we were recommended cod liver oil.
These are worth trying.

If she sleeps through once she is asleep, she doesn't need an autism diagnosis for melatonin. The GP should be able to diagnose delayed sleep phase disorder and prescribe melatonin to help get her to sleep.

It is true that it does disproportionately affect autistic children compared to neurotypical peers though so the sleep issues can be mentioned during assessment.

Without sleep or adequate quality sleep you cannot create healthy neurotransmitters, this applies to your 5 year old as well as you, which means she will not be able to emotionally regulate and neither will you if you're also not sleeping properly, so the sleep needs to be tackled as a priority. If the GP won't prescribe it, insist on a sleep study and referral to the sleep team.

I am a late diagnosed adult and because I was late diagnosed I had no idea that a lot of my anger and frustration was because I was in a perpetual state of overstimulating until I made accomodations for myself like wearing my ear defenders and refusing unnecessary plans that were not within my expectations.

It was only in the absence of the overstimulating that I realised something was afoot.

Could you try a low stimulation, low demand approach with your 5 year old?

Whenever she hits you remove yourself and tour 3 year old and just keep saying if you hit us we do not want to spend time with you, and repeat. Safety first. Always.

You might also get more practical advice if you post something like your OP to a parent mutual support Facebook group such as SEND Gin and Cheese - as lots of people there will have direct experience of similar situations.

Exactly. It's £1000s for a private autism and AdHD assessment and I'm not sure it helps very much by itself.

OP, I really feel for you and your little girls and would really implore you to ignore all the 'shout' and 'lay down consequences' posters who are parenting NT kids and read the autistic posters and parents of autistic kids and kids with ADHD.

You'll get there! You do need a very different approach.

In case no one else has already recommended- The Explosive Child by Ross Green and How To Talk So That Small Kids Will Listen are absolutely fantastic.

What do school do that works? I don’t see much evidence for masking as a phenomenon but I have seen several children be completely indistinguishable from their classmates in school and yet be reported as complete hellions at home.

i would also knock days out on the head.

We had an absolute hellraiser in our village primary at that age who was excluded and went to a specialist unit at a much bigger school. She’s managing much better now, so with the right support you and your DD will be ok. Not that I am downplaying the challenges in getting that support.

A diagnosis isnt going to suddenly stop all this.

She probably will get a diagnosis of one or other of ADHD, ASD, ODD, PDA profile, very few practitioners understand or will look at attachment disorders.

So she will have a diagnosis and OP might be supported in a different parenting style, which may or may not have an effect on the behaviors, they may in the long run.

What happens to OP and the sister in the meantime? And dad who is also getting battered, I notice hardly anyone mentions that.

The fear of being perceived plays a huge part in masking especially for girls.

It's more like camouflaging in schools. They do anything they can to fit in so they aren't seen as being anything out of the ordinary.

This might work better than a sticker chart, I’ve used it with children with challenging behaviour.
Plastic, clear tub. ( not glass in case she throws it)
Buttons or those glass round things people used to put in the water of flower arrangements.
She eats her breakfast correctly. You drop a glass thing into the jar. Make sure she hears it. You don’t say anything, just drop it in so she hears it. She brushes her teeth, one in the jar, puts her shoes on one in the jar. Doesn’t matter how many you put in the jar, the reward is yours to decide at whatever point of the day works for you.
Don’t take rewards out for bad behaviour. You start the jar anew each day.

You say you try to be out everyday but is she actually overstimulated?

Hi lovely OP. I regularly don’t want 1 of my 4 kids but I say that to reassure you that I think that ugh goes through most parent’s thoughts at some point during their lives. However…. Your post reads like my eldest at 4. I honestly wondered whether I’d given birth to a psychopath (I wondered this when she was 8). My second daughter was constantly up A&E with black eyes and suspected internal bleeding from being kicked/punched etc. But DD1 would go to school and be angelic. Everyone blamed her parents.

I could go on with lots of stories about my eldest’s ‘bad’ behaviour but I wont as she’s now 24 and gorgeous. She’s also a high functioning autistic. Girls hide autism extremely well, but getting her diagnosed was the best thing I could have done for her younger sister, myself - but far far more importantly her! She’s currently doing an MSc at a prestigious university, (despite going to a school for children with ‘learning difficulties’ (dd1 has no issue learning academic subjects only social rules and niceties)) and is extremely happy. If you want to know more, including when social services turned up for a meeting at my DD2’s school to discuss the numerous injuries she was receiving, PM me happy to help. DD1 and DD2 are good friends now.

Yes dad too is getting hurt. He had 15 stitches last month when she threw a glass jam jar at his head. We went to the gp the next day who reiterated the waiting times to me. He is very supportive but too is at a loss