Ex refusing to bring phone back.... what can I do?

[choosetime]

My ex currently has our daughter for three weeks. There's a court order in place.

He has sent me a message stating that he wants to be on our daughter's iPhone as the organiser again (he was before but I made him take it off as felt like he was policing it).

He has stated that he's not happy with daughter's phone content and usage. Then added two screen shots of the time she's on it. So he's obviously had a snoop on here to see what she's been doing and how long etc.

Didn't realise it was that much but they are both 47 hours ish a week. She's 11.

He's not happy and said until I move him back on there he won't allow my daughter to come back with it. I pay for it. It's mine; so is this theft? Can I call the police if he does this?

He states it's damaging her and no child should be on a phone that much. I'm so annoyed.

He doesn't just want "suitable controls" to be in place, he is demanding, through the threat of withholding the phone (coercion), to have authorities on a phone which is owned by his ex.

Both parents should be controlling the use of a child's phone. I wasn't aware that this was controversial. The OP evidently has no safeguards in place and is not controlling how much time their daughter is spending on the phone.

The ex said he wants to control the daughter's phone usage because his ex is not doing it. Is he coercively controlling if he makes her go to bed at a certain times, makes her play outside, makes her eat healthy food?

One of them evidently has to take control of their daughter's phone use and the OP isn't doing it.

@cupcaske123 Which part of my post do you disagree with; which part of my post (and my previous posts) is incorrect?

To address your viewpoint: he would be coercively controlling if he turned up at ex's home to demand dc goes to bed now, etc.

Having a balance of activities, time to use their imagination, time outside? Hard to get a balance when a child is on their phone 7 hours a day. I’m a teacher and the difference in attainment at primary level between those who have access to phones young and those who don’t is very clear. I had a class of 24 9 year olds last session, only 6 of them didn’t have a phone! Guess which 6 were my top performers in numeracy and literacy? It’s crazy how clear the link is and how some parents don’t see it. I work full time too by the way and my screen time on my iPhone averages 10-15 hours a week. It’s really not necessary to be glued to them, people who think it is are just making excuses.

I would be inclined to do the same if my ex was parenting so poorly. So, yes.

But the two aren’t mutually exclusive. My daughter has a high screen time and she was 2nd in her class at primary. She’s just finished her first year at high school and has been predicted some very good grades so far. She also spends a lot of time with her friends, outdoors. You can have a “good” kid who spends a lot of time on their phone.

I’m not saying it’s necessary to be glued to them but you can use them a lot and be ok! We don’t know anything else about OPs parenting other than her DD has high screen time in the holidays but we can’t assume from that she is a bad parent or has a bad kid.

Apologies for not being clear:

He doesn't just want "suitable controls" to be in place,

He says that she is spending nearly 50 hours a week on the phone and is watching unsuitable content. He says he wants to control how much she uses the phone and what she watches ie suitable controls

He is demanding, through the threat of withholding the phone (coercion), to have authorities on a phone which is owned by his ex.

He's attempting to parent his child. I would take something away from my child if I thought it was damaging to them. If my ex gave them a ten pack of doughnuts, I'd taken it away, if my ex sent my child to me with an X box and they spent seven hours a day non stop playing on it, I'd take it away. I would remove anything that had the potential to harm them.

To address your viewpoint: he would be coercively controlling if he turned up at ex's home to demand dc goes to bed now, etc.

He has his 11 year old for three weeks and is attempting to control her phone use as she's on it for hours every day with no safeguards.

You're obviously not aware but children are groomed online by predators, they're also subject to bullying, they can look at porn and violence - anything is possible if there are no safeguards in place and phone use isn't monitored.

He has picked up on the fact that his daughter's phone use is out of control and wants to take over.

Wow. These replies! What usage do posters have on their phones? Mine says 8hrs of usage yesterday, 4 of those on safari. I presume this is from when apps are running. I do use my phone as a search function while I am working. It doesn't mean I'm just sat on my phone endlessly staring at a screen.

if he's concerned about usage. Is he taking her out and about instead? Could she leave the phone at home when she goes with him. Perhaps take a cheaper pay as you go for keeping in touch with you?

Not sure if you missed it, but this couple are separated, he doesn't get to "parent his child" when dc is with the mother. He can't march into her home and whip the donut (or the phone) from her hands.

Of course he can prohibit the dc's phone use when they're with him, but he doesn't get to dictate by keeping the phone, which is the mother's property. If he has a problem with her parenting, he should raise it appropriately, not coercively. It's the coercion I'm objecting to, not the desire to monitor screen time.

And your penultimate paragraph is pretty insulting, of course I'm aware of the risks FFS!

I assumed that since you didn't agree with one of the parents taking control and monitoring their child's phone use, you weren't aware of the risks. I would have thought that most parents, with their child's interests at heart, would control their child's phone.

How does he raise the lack of control appropriately?

Hang on, who mentioned “bad” kids? Look at my post. I’m talking about the unseen damage to the brain caused by high screen time. Nothing to do with good or bad. And yes some people can cope with it, children and adults. Many, many can’t. I don’t believe there’s any such thing as a “bad” child.

Are you in the UK by the way? If so we stopped ranking pupils 1st/2nd etc approx 40 years ago and if a teacher told you she’s second in the class that was unprofessional.

You can smoke 40 a day and never get cancer. I’m not going to encourage kids to do so on the off chance that might apply to them. Every bit of medical information available confirms that high screen time is not good for children.

You are being unreasonable.

My dd is 11 in a gew weeks and has had a phone for a couple of years so she can stay in touch when with her dad. It is her ohone (birthday gift) but I pay the rolling pay as you go contract.

The phone is hers but she is fully aware that she has screen limits and that if she exceeds them without checking with me or her dad then she stands to lose her phone.

She is expected to surrender it any time I ask without a fight or she loses it.

I check on it a few times a week. I expect her dad to do the same when she is with him.

47 hours a week is a bloody ridiculous a count of time for an 11 year old to be on their phone.

The fact you are actively working against her dad is also absolutely ridiculous.you are both her parents and you need tonwork to get her to coparnet effectively.

Yes. That's exactly correct.

He cannot dictate what the op allows when their child is with her. Just as the op can't dictate what their child does when she's with him.

Ideally they would work together and agree a consistent rule.

What he can't do is take the op's property and refuse to return it to the op

He can take it from his child and refuse to allow her to use it at his house and return it to the op.
He can tell his child to leave her phone at her mum's in future.
He can let his child use it for an hour a day when she's with him and confiscate it when the hour is up.

There's a lot of things he can do.

What he can't do is steal it from the op.

It's the OP's phone so he is stealing it if he doesn't return it. I agree about the usage though.

Are you for real?

But OP isn't agreeing a reasonable amount. She isn't agreeing to restrict usage. She didn't even know how much time her DD was spending on her phone. Which means she isn't supervising, so she doesn't know what the 11 is doing either.

One parent doesn't have a right to make irresponsible and dangerous decisions for a child and refuse to engage with the other parent about it.

He's protecting his child from OPs ineptitude.

How do you suggest he safeguards his daughter?

Exactly! The OP isn’t monitoring the phone, the child could be being exposed to anything. For nearly 47 hours a week. That’s more time than most of us spend at work FFS. The other parent has the right to protect his child! I’d judge any mother or father who was ok with this to be honest and it sounds like the child at least has a dad who is invested in protecting her.

If I was the Dad I’d give back the phone to the OP but ensure she knows that the child knows that she will have strict screen limits at my house. I’d also seek mediation with the OP to create a parenting plan that includes things like screen time use.

I mean mine says I spend 12hrs a day on it but it counts when I'm connected to the VPN, when I'm playing music etc etc etc

He has a very valid point regarding her useage- even with it being the holidays almost 50 hours a week is ridiculous. If you put him back on, what would that mean he could see or do? She needs to be restricted somewhat- that is very excessive use.

Well he can't tell OP how to parent on her time but there are quite a few options he can do at his house, van the phone from coming, confiscate it whilst she's there etc. if he has real safeguarding concerns report to SS and/or apply to the courts.

I very much doubt the child is on the phone 47 hours per week. As pp have said, apps run in the background. And if he's seeing her for some of that time and doesn't allow it then it doesn't make sense?

The OP isn't monitoring what her daughter is doing online. He's offered to set up controls on the phone to monitor her and the OP is refusing.

It makes perfect sense to me. I wouldn't want my 11 year old to have unlimited access to a phone with no safeguards. As far as I'm concerned, that's neglect. There was a recent case of an 11 year old who was groomed, bullied and sexually assaulted and her mother didn't take away her phone.

Ideally they would co parent with suitable apps and frequent checks to make sure she was safe and discourage unlimited use. I don't understand why the OP can't come to an agreement with her ex regarding this.

If this were to go to court they'd class it as a parenting issue and as a result each parent would be able to control the usage on their time.

He is welcome to confiscate the phone during his parenting time. But it must be returned to OP at the end.

Morally OPs fucked. But legally he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

@cupcaske123

I don't think any of my posts said I don't agree that screen time should be monitored or controlled; my posts were criticising the coercion of one person by another.

Just to clarify my position:

• The father, under NO circumstances, gets to have administrator privileges on a phone that belongs to his EX partner (he is currently demanding these privileges and it was this demand, and the keeping of the phone, that the OP was objecting to).
• The father can absolutely withhold the phone from DC during DC’s time with him if he's concerned about usage.
• The father MUST return the phone to his ex when he returns DC (it’s the ex’s property).
• The two parents should get together and agree an appropriate amount of phone usage which both of them should then enforce. How do they do that? Like two mature adults discussing what’s best for their child (the OP has indicated that she was surprised at how much screen time her DC was having, she didn’t say it shouldn’t be reduced, so I presume she would be open to a reasonable discussion). The way he’s gone about it so far - coercion - is what’s unreasonable.

@Borninabarn32 Please see my reply above to cupcaske123. Is there a mandatory amount of screen time beyond which amounts to child abuse? If so, report it to social services, otherwise he can't keep the phone. And I might be mistaken, but I don't think the op was refusing to reduce screen time.