Ex refusing to bring phone back.... what can I do?

[choosetime]

My ex currently has our daughter for three weeks. There's a court order in place.

He has sent me a message stating that he wants to be on our daughter's iPhone as the organiser again (he was before but I made him take it off as felt like he was policing it).

He has stated that he's not happy with daughter's phone content and usage. Then added two screen shots of the time she's on it. So he's obviously had a snoop on here to see what she's been doing and how long etc.

Didn't realise it was that much but they are both 47 hours ish a week. She's 11.

He's not happy and said until I move him back on there he won't allow my daughter to come back with it. I pay for it. It's mine; so is this theft? Can I call the police if he does this?

He states it's damaging her and no child should be on a phone that much. I'm so annoyed.

Two separate issues. He is right to take it off her, that is an insane amount of time, what's worse you don't seem to have been aware.

He should return your property but I would suggest you agree to set restrictions.

@Spirallingdownwards

The op says:

"That's he has said he's keeping it and won't bring her back with it! I pay for it. It's my property."

How's that not an intention to permanently deprive?

He also said if he can monitor her (thee 11 hear kld child's) usage then he will give it back and hence indicates there is no intention to permanently deprive.

@Spirallingdownwards

R v Vinall [2012] 1 Cr App R 29 the Court of Appeal said:
“What section 6(1) requires is a state of mind in the defendant which Parliament regards as the equivalent of an intention permanently to deprive, namely “his intention to treat the thing as his own to dispose of regardless of the other's rights”. The subsection does not require that the thing has been disposed of, nor does it require that the defendant intends to dispose of the thing in any particular way."

Found on the CPS guidance for theft

The ex is attaching conditions to the return of the phone thereby treating the phone as his own.

Exactly. Its all the 'u ok hun? Mumz rulez always. Menz are always wrong whatevez' crew that are out in force on this.
Yes, what a prick he is ensuring his child's safety and well-being. But of course it's all about the OP...

You're the ex or a misogynist. It's literally the definition of both. But you already know that.

Nothing more to add.

His behaviour is coercive: "I will keep your phone unless you agree to my demands".

It also opens the op up to further controlling behaviour if the ex is subsequently able to track her movements if she agrees to his demands.

...

I am neither the ex nor a misogynist. Just a solicitor. If OP wants to report it she can. But it won't lead to him being prosecuted for either.

And I'm the Queen of Sheba.

You're wrong. Stop trying to big note yourself nobody cares about your fables.

As it's coercive control and he's definitely threatening a crime call the police.

They'll be able to advise you further.

And in future, monitor her phone use. Just because he's a would be criminal and coercively controlling doesn't mean he's actually wrong on this occasion about her using the phone far too much.

He says he's not happy with the content she's looking at so I'm assuming there are no safeguards on the phone restricting content. Nearly fifty hours a week is ridiculous.

It's irresponsible to not safeguard a child's phone, the internet is like the wild west and she's obviously not getting enough exercise if she's staring at her screen for 7 hours a day. Such a long amount of screen time is damaging and has a detrimental effect on behaviour.

I would let him take over the phone admin like he wants as someone has to police what she's doing. Just agree to it and get the phone back.

I agree it's a ridiculous amount of time on a phone.

But she doesn't want him to coercively control her. And it's her phone.

He can seek legal recourse for his concerns and meanwhile he must hand her phone back, or it's theft.

Happy to post my LPC certificate. Perhaps you can post your crown?

I will leave you all to it so you can all froth at the mouth at a man trying to protect his 11 year old daughter. But because he is an ex husband he doesn't get to have a say.

You say snooping on the phone as if he shouldn't be looking on his 11 year olds phone when she's in his care for 3 weeks. Of course he should! Worrying that you think he shouldn't and tbh I can see his point. I'd be very concerned if I was him too and would wonder how to proceed next if the other parent didn't seem bothered. 11 year olds must have their phones restricted and regularly monitored!

Kids will love this! Both fiddling while Rome burns

Coercive control of an 11yo by monitoring their Internet use?!
Usually called parenting, but of course as it's an ex, it must be all about the OP!

Only if you already have the phone. Sometimes it works out cheaper or more affordable to get them together.

Not many (any?) folk have said he's wrong about the hours, but you're conflating two different things, he's definitely wrong (and coercive) to threaten to keep the phone to achieve his demands.

What if it was a bank card, rather than a phone, and he threatened to keep it because the DC was 'spending too much'.? Everyone would be screaming 'coercive control'.

It's not that difficult... give her the fucking phone back, and agree a reasonable amount of screen time.

By the by, according to the Theft Act 1968, theft is defined as the dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it.

As he intends to permanently deprive you of your phone unless you acquiesce to coercive control, it's theft.

In addition he could be charged with other crimes.

If an ex-husband tries to force you to give him control of your phone in the UK, this could potentially constitute several offences, depending on the circumstances and the methods used. These may include:

1. Coercive Control: If the behaviour is part of a pattern of controlling or coercive behaviour, it could fall under the offence of controlling or coercive behaviour as defined in Section 76 of the Serious Crime Act 2015.
2. Harassment: Under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, a course of conduct that causes alarm or distress can be considered harassment. If the ex-husband’s actions are persistent and unwanted, they may meet this definition.
3. Theft: If he physically takes the phone without your consent and intends to permanently deprive you of it, this could be considered theft under the Theft Act 1968.
4. Blackmail: If he threatens you in order to obtain control of your phone, this could be considered blackmail under the Theft Act 1968, Section 21.
5. Computer Misuse: If he accesses your phone without permission, this could be an offence under the Computer Misuse Act 1990.

Call the cops, let them sort it out.

And then sort out better monitoring of her phone or he may seek legal advice to protect her too.

Ah, that’s the reason all these kids have these issues. Phone usage and absolutely nothing else! Find me something that doesn’t cause all those issues nowadays.

The kid is on holiday so will have more time to be on the phone. She’s also with the dad that’s trying to impose the ban so it’s happened on his watch. Watching something on Netflix or the like also adds to screen time but is no different to tv. I bet everyone here has a higher screen time than they expect. I know mine is over 47 hours already for the week and I work full time plus all the other stuff adults do.

But that’s not really the point of the thread is it?! It’s the coercive control imposed by the ex.

Also, the manpanderers telling her to just have a chat to him and #benice - he should have messaged her to politely explain he had concerns about the kid's screen time and asked if they could discuss it and come to a joint agreement.

But, as a bully, he went straight to theft and coercive control.

Never, ever give in to such tactics or they will always ramp up.

He doesn't get to steal her property and order her around. And yep, she very definitely has the law on her side.

End

There's no mention in the OP that the ex was ever coercively controlling, just that he wants to control what his daughter is looking at and how long she uses the phone for.

He's obviously worried about the detrimental effect her phone use could have. Parents should be controlling the phone use of children, it's part of the responsibility of being a parent.

He said he's witholding the phone until suitable controls are put in place to monitor it. All the OP has to do is agree to it being monitored which protects her daughter's well being and she has the phone.

Yes your ex is being unreasonable to have kept the phone and not returned it to you when dd was returned home.

No, he's not unreasonable to want her to limit use while he's with you. He can manage that himself by taking the phone off her apart from set times he permits her to have it.

He doesn't control your time with your daughter. You don't control his time with his daughter.

I would also be concerned about her unrestricted use though. My 4 dc have iPhones and 3 of them have restrictions because they are unable to regulate their use. It comes on and goes off at set times each day. They are set up so they can still contact family within their restricted times and access to music. If I were your ex, I would be similarly concerned but only you know if this is genuine concern or manipulating you.