Social Services want my son to come home to me.. ***MNHQ adding content warning***

[TheGreenBee]

UK.

Social services want my 15yo to come back home to me after he has sexually abused my 4yo which is his brother and he’s also done this to his 8yo brother from his dads house too . I’ve been dealing with 4 safeguarding officers from each of my children’s schools and preschool - they all agree my 15yo should not come home.
Social services are threatening me with claims of neglect despite me begging them for help rehoming him and getting him the help he needs (he’s struggled for a long time with mental health and no one listens or helps and now it’s got way too far) I need to protect the innocent children I have at home, as well as try to find him somewhere safe & suitable to live etc & I keep being told he needs to come home.
His grandma had him a few days but said he had to go, his dad has suggested to social services that he stays in a summer house in his garden - which I’ve argued I don’t think is suitable at all and that he needs to be properly housed.
The social worker laughed at me when I suggested foster care & keeps threatening me and trying to blackmail me etc.
I’m waiting for her report and recommendations but she’s already suggested to me that my 3 other children go to live with their dads and I have my 15yo home but I don’t want to do that, they need their mum more than anything right now and I need them too. I know my 15yo needs help and support too, but I can’t help him in the ways he needs and I feel so hurt and angry and broken over it all I don’t want to look at him or talk to him.
Does anyone have any useful advice on a situation like this?
I feel like the social worker has lost her marbles? Or have I? My head and heart are f*cked tbh.

I am sorry, GreenBee. I’ve raised challenging children and the fear is always there, that you’ll miss something or they will go too far.

Some of mine are fabulous successful adults, others managed not to hurt anyone else but are living very unhealthy lifestyles themselves.

I feel your pain

edited a typo

Where do you think personality disorders stem from? They are usually the result of trauma. OP did say that her recent partner was abusive (though she thinks her kids didn't notice this) so there is no reason to believe the child didn't experience trauma.

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
my favourite is when they put in their report that the child should be in care because they are 'putting themselves at risk'

genetics, neurological differences, and environmental factors contribute to the development of mh disorders not just trauma, and as I’ve said previously if being with me has traumatised him to the extent that he’s now sexually abusing children he definitely shouldn’t be coming home to me. Despite all the trauma I’ve dealt with through child and adult hood I’ve not once harmed a child or adult, you still have free will and sexual orientations and other factors involved, he can differentiate wrong from right.

Some research thinks bad behaviour is inherited.
Aggression, psychopathic tendencies &c.

But the old arguments of ''Nature vs nurture'' probably come into it as well.

Violent abusive men may transmit this trait to their offspring.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2005/may/25/youthjustice.law

Why is it always “blame the mum” I’ve done everything I can to get him help and left an abusive relationship to protect all the children and myself, I done all the work I needed to do and everything I was advised to do, I’ve fought harder than anyone has for my 15yo, I’ve followed the procedure and reported it where it needs to be, I’ve not covered up or hid anything because that won’t result in an outcome that will protect others or get him the help needed and I still get ridiculed for traumatising him to the point he does this. I’ve got 4 children, all had the same experiences and yet the others don’t lie, steal, beat their siblings, destroy the house and sexually abuse others. Everyone copes differently yes, but if you are saying it’s because of what he’s experienced in my care then all the children would be acting in a similar way - otherwise it doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.
And saying the behaviour has been inherited, yes that can happen, but neither his dad or myself have ever been abusive 🤦‍♀️ generally don’t see abusive parents fighting for and desperately trying to seek answers, advice and solutions to help and protect their children..

Ignore any response from @DracoDormiensNumquamTittilandum my mum's friend is correct about this person's attitude and intentions. This stranger is extremely invested in blaming you, knowing more than you about your teens alleged trauma and trying to guilt you into choosing him over the younger ones you're protecting.

If they are a social worker, I imagine they're the kind people dread. When I was fostering then through adoption process, I came across a couple of real pieces of work amongst all the lovely ones.

During a conversation I had with the social worker after she spoke to my 15yo, she said when asked what don’t you like about home he said “sometimes when I’m in the middle of doing something mum asks me to stop to do something else, like have dinner, and it annoys me” does that sound abusive? 🤔 does that sound like I’ve been an awful role model for him, or that I’m doing something completely bizarre that would be traumatic? I’ve had conversations with children that have been neglected and abused and their response to this question is very very different from his answer. So 🤦‍♀️

@TheGreenBee For whatever reason your son might just be a very difficult character.

It must be hell on earth having to deal with the behaviour.

Hurting his siblings and S A them is about as bad as it gets.

Is he jealous of them?

No easy answers.

If he is compos mentis he knows damn well that sexual abuse is really a taboo in society.

Is there any chance that he was sexually abused in his past?

I have a 13 and 15 Yr old who get the hump when they're told to do something, one with ASD and they have never had the kind of reaction you describe. I get sick of my own nagging sometimes but would i be deemed abusive, no way. You're unfairly getting it in the neck for the actions of a teen. And those saying he is a child, yes agreed, but my 6ft, well built 15 yr old who towers over me, knows the difference between right and wrong. Is he emotionally developed enough to run a household or make a major loge decision, no. However, he knows about unacceptable behaviour - sexual, violence, theft, etc and needs to know that unacceptable actions have consequences.

As mentioned one of my boys is adopted and what he went through up until the age of 18 months is what you call neglectful! I've fostered siblings who came from terribly sad environments and had understandable challenging behaviour. My mums friend has some truly heartbreaking stories and her and her lovely late husband fostered heavily abused kids when she retired.

Nothing you've said has indicated anything close to any of that. Assuming it is a personality disorder, what exactly do the social workers expect you to do? I have my opinions on how they tend to be unsuccessfully treated, but as its from a neuroscientific aspect rather than a clinical psychology aspect I can't say I'm well placed to publicly comment on that.

Although there are many issues with the youth justice system, there are minors within it who are learning the consequences of their actions, many who come from genuinely abusive environments. The way they're trying to push you to take your son back at the expense of the others, is in no way showing him there are any negative consequences for doing exactly what he wants, and instead the younger kids would see it as being punished, that you are choosing him over them, even though they were the ones harmed. If they can't see how THAT would cause trauma for them, they really don't care about any of you, and their claims of caring about the 15 yr olds "trauma" is bullshit. They may as well be opening their mouths and letting the wind blow their tongue around. Empty words that mean nothing.

My 15yo is also 6” and towers above me and as you said knows what is right and wrong. He’s studying psychology and we often had in depth hour long conversations about it and even politics etc, he’s not a harmless little lad he’s clued up and very mature for his age, which is somewhat more scary because he knows what he is doing and knows it’s wrong but does all these things anyway.

Atm I’m awaiting the SS report, which I’ve heard takes around 42 days? All they’ve verbally suggested so far are ridiculous options regarding where he should live but nothing in terms of help/support/referring for any kind of my assessments, I’m hoping that they do include this in their report so we can try and find a way forward. However, after how they’ve acted so far I’m not holding my breath.

Luckily some good people on here have provided some useful info and links which I can look into further and hopefully find the right kind of path out of this mess, with all the children’s mh and well being prioritised 🙏🏼

The report should be a lot more thorough than what they say verbally. What I would say is get a highlighter ready and anything that is incorrect or has been misconstrued highlight it, and make sure the information in the report is 100% accurate to the best of your knowledge, contact them if there's any inaccuracies as it could be important in regards to getting him the support he needs down the line as all reports can be pulled up at anytime and questioned (like I mentioned, not all SWs are thorough or nice)

The living situation is really important that all avenues away from the other kids can be explored, there are foster places that specifically deal with certain behaviour and they save spaces for them (I knew a woman who took in newborns esp those who had drug withdrawal and always saved a space so only ever took 2 other kids so she always had the nursery available and another who specifically took in SEN kids. Many do take challenging teens) so this realistically could be looked into by them while other support and therapies are taking place.

I guess the worry for you isn't just sexual predatory or violent behaviour, it's also why he did it, like was it control, power play and dominance over you and his dad, rather than the typical reasons behind it. It leads to the worry of what could he do next.

But yes, sometimes MN can be great for sign posting and advice, there are some very good people here I've found.

But at the end of the day, no matter what the reason behind is behaviour is, it's done. He's done it. He's committed these horrible assaults to children, so he can't go back and live with those children!

Twin studies suggest the inherited factor is huge when it comes to personality disorders; the idea that they are all caused by “trauma” is laughable. His biological father was obviously an unpleasant character; I’d mainly be looking at that if I wanted to assign blame.

GreenBee please stop either blaming yourself or telling us all very emphatically it's not your fault- those lines of thought are not productive.

You have to focus on the here and now-what can you and DSs' Dad do support and help him going forward ? Whilst of course protecting your younger DCs.

your post makes no sense - "he inherited it so he isn't to blame, his father is to blame, because - he inherited it!" 😂

And people have a choice how to behave.

I've contacted the family rights group, Shore, Brook, Apple Orchard and Lucy Faithful for help and advice on ways to help all of the children.
I've spoke with the DSL’s at all of the schools and they have counselling in place from September for each of them.
Apple Orchard will only take referral from SS so I’ve asked the SW to do this (hopefully she does)
I’m waiting on SW’s report which can take 42 days, so there’s not much more I can do in the mean time.

I haven’t said “it’s not my fault” I’m being asked if my sons been abused or been bought up in a traumatic and turbulent home, I’m responding to the questions etc 😬

His dad isn’t helping find support, just put him in a shed and then put his head back in the sand.

Apple Orchard will only take referral from SS so I’ve asked the SW to do this (hopefully she does)

The sticking point with this will be the cost to social services. Now you need to get your local councillor involved who will hopefully advocate for you and your son. Email them today.

My sister is contacting our local one today, she has a good relationship with him so I’m hoping to have a meeting organised ASAP!

I asked for a referral and got this response “I am hoping as parents you keep talking to him positively because it is the parents who can help him into the person you want him to be by positive communication”

It’s because you’re asking for something which is above her pay grade to approve. (And maybe also because your son will soon be 16.)
Hopefully the councillor will intervene.

I asked for a referral and got this response “I am hoping as parents you keep talking to him positively because it is the parents who can help him into the person you want him to be by positive communication”

Wow. I can't believe that is their response. They don't want to do their job, so they?

If providing expensive specialist placements for every single young person with problematic or harmful behaviour was their job you might have a point. But it's not.

I have no experience of this, but with now adult kids with different difficulties, I cannot applaud you enough. I do get it's so very tough. Wishing you so very well.

No they really don’t!