Social Services want my son to come home to me.. ***MNHQ adding content warning***

[TheGreenBee]

UK.

Social services want my 15yo to come back home to me after he has sexually abused my 4yo which is his brother and he’s also done this to his 8yo brother from his dads house too . I’ve been dealing with 4 safeguarding officers from each of my children’s schools and preschool - they all agree my 15yo should not come home.
Social services are threatening me with claims of neglect despite me begging them for help rehoming him and getting him the help he needs (he’s struggled for a long time with mental health and no one listens or helps and now it’s got way too far) I need to protect the innocent children I have at home, as well as try to find him somewhere safe & suitable to live etc & I keep being told he needs to come home.
His grandma had him a few days but said he had to go, his dad has suggested to social services that he stays in a summer house in his garden - which I’ve argued I don’t think is suitable at all and that he needs to be properly housed.
The social worker laughed at me when I suggested foster care & keeps threatening me and trying to blackmail me etc.
I’m waiting for her report and recommendations but she’s already suggested to me that my 3 other children go to live with their dads and I have my 15yo home but I don’t want to do that, they need their mum more than anything right now and I need them too. I know my 15yo needs help and support too, but I can’t help him in the ways he needs and I feel so hurt and angry and broken over it all I don’t want to look at him or talk to him.
Does anyone have any useful advice on a situation like this?
I feel like the social worker has lost her marbles? Or have I? My head and heart are f*cked tbh.

OP I'm so sorry for the situation you're in and also for the many hurtful comments you have received here.

Have SS completed a risk assessment re. oldest moving in the shed (often called a 'safety plan')? I would like to see how they justify it, both around his wellbeing and the safety of the other children. I would ask for this as a matter of urgency.

They may be threatening you with a child protection plan/initial child protection conference, although this is a very serious process it's not always a bad thing, it's a statutory process and all professionals e.g. other children's schools, police etc. are asked to attend. This process tends to open doors that aren't usually available due to funding. It's not a nice process to be in but don't let SWs use it as a threat to you.

It's good you have a solicitor, definitely use them. And I'd also contact the Lucy faithful foundation yourself to seek their guidance, their helpline is 0808 1000 900 and is open 9am - 9pm today

No. You said that you can’t give up parental responsibility in response to the statement about rights. My point is you can do that. You can literally give up parental responsibilities. The OP is in a difficult situation and being pressured by social workers, but ultimately no one can force her to meet her responsibilities to her child.

My friend adopted a very disturbed young girl - It was absolutely obvious she has been sexually abused by her birth father.

The things she tried to do with adult men who visited- the things she said..it was distressing and shocking to see.

In Court it was said that the evidence of a child that young couldn't be taken as evidence. There was no DNA evidence as the abuse had taken place before she was taken into care.

No young child would act things out or say things unless they had been exposed to a paedophile.

The birth father remarried...and surprise surprise, sexually abused the existing and his own children in his new relationship-and has done time in jail for it.

The child my friend adopted is an adult now, but has been terribly damaged by her early experiences.

Birth father should have been put on the sex offenders register years beforehand - it might have helped protect the children he subsequently had and went on to abuse.

In her first post
Social services are threatening me with claims of neglect despite me begging them for help rehoming him

If you really are a SW, then you would know that whether the police take action or not is not determined by a ‘younger sibling’, it’s the adults who make that decision - the Police with the CPS, not child victims.

Firstly OP says that the victims wouldnt or couldnt give information in the way needed, not unusual in children

So he wont be charged as theres no evidence.

Even if he were and the convicted, you do realise that no court in the land would give a custodial sentence for that. We work with children all the time who do have actual convictions of sexual abuse of others, they very rarely get custodial sentences, in fact Ive never known of it in my career although it does happen occassionally.

Mostly, prosecutions of children harming other children are not seen as being in the public interest. There are some very very dangerous children in society who are living in streets up and down the country who are being managed in the community.

You cant 'give up' PR, you dont lose it unless removed by court.

You can delegate responsbility with your consent to someone else but you still retain your responsbility to care for your child, even if the child isnt directly in your care.

I too thought that comment was very bizarre {about the sexually abused young child ''not wanting to take things further''}

On Mumsnet anyone can say they are social workers -Or anything else for that matter!- There is no proof.

You're still wrong because you're misunderstanding what a court order does and what parental responsibility is.

The "as if he's a stray dog" part. Where has she discussed him in such a manner?
She has repeatedly said how much she cares for him and wants him to get better, and has tried so many interventions already to help him, and doesn't want him in a shed due to poor quality of living... so where's the "stray dog" comparison?

The police will always invite a victim to say whether they want to proceed with a statement and provide evidence. Sometimes victims dont and one might refer to that as 'not wanting to take it further'.

Wrong inference but thats essentially what it means.

What tends to happen to these sexually abusing underage people?

Assuming their attraction to children doesn't magically evaporate once they turn 18?

Do they then offend and end up in Jail ? Paedophile men are an absolute menace, and they remain active and dangerous right into old age.

Plenty of old paedophiles around- wish there was something to stop them offending -chemical castration or similar.

https://www.wiltshire.police.uk/news/wiltshire/news/2023/november-2023/man-jailed-for-eight-years-for-indecent-assaults-on-child/

Please refer your son to Shore. They provide specialist support for teenagers experiencing harmful sexual thoughts shorespace.org.uk

The parent organisation Lucy Faithfull will be able to support you.

Good luck

@Soontobe60 I'm a Social Worker in Northern Ireland and The Joint Protocol we follow is child led. If the child victim wishes to take it further ie sit down and give an interview for evidence otherwise known as an ABE then they make that choice. If they decide not to go to ABE then they can also make that choice. We completely pre interview assessments with all children of different ages when disclosures are made and the point of this is to explain the process to them regarding ABE and court processes.

Are you a Social Worker in Northern Ireland then you have no clue what I'm talking about. As I stated on my post I was involved in a case therefore my statement was about my specific case. It was up to the victim if she wanted to give an interview for evidence and she did not, without this and lack of physical evidence, an alleged first offence of low level then the Police did not pursue further as Social Services were involved for all the children involved. Ok @Soontobe60

I suspect they go on and offend in later life, either being caught or not

There are the usual referrals that can be made but if the young person doesnt want to engage, you cant force therapy on someone, it doesnt work like that.

If they're not subject to any police/court oversight or YOT oversight (because theres been no conviction), they might not even be subject to a SRO becuase the thresholds for that are high, many get turned down, they're just your bog standard member of society, like you and me.

Even if they are under a SRO, that expires at some point and YOT interventions are somewhat scanty, certainly where I work, might be better in other areas. But again, you can meet with that young person weekly but if they just sit there not engaging, there is not a lot you can do.

Thats the reality.

@oakleaffy Have a read of the Joint Protocol for Northern Ireland which is a protocol I follow everyday in my work for these type of cases. It's up to the child victim if they want to give evidence and proceed to Police interviews also know as ABE. This child interview is part of any evidence combined with any physical evidence. I've already explained why the police didn't take my specific case further. First offence of low level, child victim did not want to proceed to police interview. Social services were involved to support and assess further. Police did not pursue as not in best interests of both children

Its not just Nothern Ireland, a police investigation cant really proceed if the victim doesnt make a statement. There are some exceptions to that but its rare, they havent got anything to put to the CPS so of course its going no where

OP it looks like you've been up all night with this stress.
First of all .. get some sleep. It's hard to think properly when you are sleep deprived.
Ignore the threats and guilt tripping by SS. Your duty is to protect the children who live with you by court order and are vulnerable.
So just keep saying no. If they threaten court then say fine, take me to court and I'll explain it all there and the judge can decide whether the needs of the 15 Yr old trump the needs of the 3 younger kids. Because this won't actually happen. Your solicitor has told you to say no. So just say no. Practice it. Keep saying it. Don't listen to them if they are gaslighted you or being horrible, just say "this conversation is upsetting me so can we talk again later when I am feeling better" and put the phone down.

I agree. @DracoDormiensNumquamTittilandum is not a social worker I would EVER trust and don't believe they have ever been one. This is totally odd stance to take for a children's social worker - my mum's friend is a retired children's social worker and I sent her over the screen shots this morning to this and she thinks they're a troll as no one who works in protecting children would say what this person has.

I don't really care if you believe me or not but if you go through every post I've made on this thread you will not find a lie.

OP I do want to apologise to you for my tone. I reflected this morning about why this thread triggered me at 3am. I'm perimenopausal, have insomnia and close to burn out in my job. I shouldn't have got so involved in this thread, it's pushing my buttons. However everything I have said, tone notwithstanding, is correct.

I'm so sorry your going through all this. It must be horrific for you 😔 your son while he is your son and you want to look after him, has been abusing your younger child and another child. He cannot come home to you it's that simple your other children deserve that much at least

I'm so sorry OP

You, your youngest 3 kids and even your son have been let down.

It's horrendous and I hope you all get the help you need.

Any use?

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/wales/family/looking-after-people/social-services-complaints-w/social-services-complaints-using-the-complaints-procedure-w/

Also

https://www.socialworkengland.org.uk/concerns/raise-a-concern/

You can raise a 'fitness to practice' concern.

@DracoDormiensNumquamTittilandum You we're right. Nobody understands the role that SWs have unless they have done it. This is the problem with parenting today when there child does something wrong they blame other people for not fixing it.

In the real world a child is under the responsibility of their parents. That child's parents need to provide them with a safe home. In this instance the op needs to protect her younger children however she still has another child she needs to source accommodation for. Families/ extended families and friends of the family should come together to help with this first and foremost, not social services. If this means the Dad moves out temporarily to take care of his son then he needs to step up as a parent and do that. Newsflash - parents need to take care of their children, all their children.

There is more to this than we have been told, I imagine a lot of the facts are missing. No Social Worker would be recommending he returns home considering the risk he poses to the younger children.

So where is he staying at the moment op or has been staying since this all came out.

Fitness to practice? FFS