How’s your house function normally with an incredibly angry/disruptive child in it?

[EvangelicalAboutButteredToast]

I’m pondering this tonight as we’ve crashed into the bank holiday weekend in absolute turmoil again due to my eight year olds behaviour.

Manages to be a role model student at school but has been exceptionally dysregulated at home since the age of four. No ACES. No diagnosis, presents as NT I would say. Extremely controlling which I know can go hand in hand with anxiety.

In the last few days they have put a hole in the wall, thrown everything around when angry. Blocked me into various rooms whilst hitting me and pushing me continuously. Pushed my eleven year old around and blocked them from leaving areas. Will scream and scream for over an hour. Demands their own way at all times. Cannot cope with being told no. Extremely defiant, never acquiesces on anything. Most disagreeable personality I think I’ve met.

I’ve approached lots of outside help in the last four years and attended training courses through my work and privately. The best I can do is manage it. Down the line I can honestly see it breaking the family up. My partner (the children’s dad) is barely coping really. We grab a tiny amount of time together each day to have a relationship but our child dominates everything. Days out get ruined. Days in creates a war in the house. I’m honestly at a bit of a loss.

can anyone else relate and if so, how are you all managing and did anything improve with time? By the way this child is EXTREMELY bright and has a wonderful group of friends and a hobby they love. No financial worries. No arguing between partner and I.

Does he show anxiety in other situations? How is the transition to and from school? Clubs?

I have a son who was similarly angry. He did show lots of anxiety in other situations too but he did settle at school after a while and did well.

It was really tough. We had to change our parenting quite a bit. We parent with few demands. We rarely use sanctions anymore as they seemed to inflame the situation. We would try to disengage as much as possible in the moment and address the behaviour later.

He improved with age! 4-7 were or toughest years.

We do the same. I avoid triggers but won’t tread on egg shells. He doesn’t show any anxiety elsewhere but does scare himself when dystegulated. We stay very calm 95% of the time but when he hurts me I do shout sometimes.

This sounds a lot like my six year old.
He's very much his way or the highway and it's very up and down.
We try to get him outside as much as possible which helps but isn't always possible. I am much better at dealing with it than DP who generally struggle with family life anyway. I think dc is very sensitive and picks up when we are fed up and then things spiral.

Your question about a normal family life - well, we are just dealing with the hand if cards we've been dealt. Sometimes I feel very low about my other DC, we don't go out or away as much as I'd like and my own life is very small. I'm having a low level argument with DP about this as he criticizes me for not having hobbies but I have no idea how he thinks I will have anymore he just fucks off on his bike, someone has to look after the kids!

I have had the conversation that when he is ten if he hits me, or anyone, he can get in trouble with the police so best to stop doing it now. Probably not advised but he won't be able to say he wasn't warned. And detaching from the idea of the family I thought I'd have.

Sorry, but this doesn’t sound like an NT child at all.

It sounds like a very bright child who masks all day outside of the house then behaves catastrophically at home because they are exhausted and desperately in need of control. All of this screams ND to me - have you read about PDA profile autism?

It's not really typical behaviour.
Have you read the explosive child book.

Why do you say presents as NT? This is not typical behaviour at all. You also say extremely bright - if he is gifted (classed as IQ over 130, though honestly IQ is a bit of a crapshoot) that is classed as a neurotype outside of typical.

What triggers do you avoid and how?

My eldest and middle can be like this, though not as often as you describe (eldest ADHD, middle unsure) and the eldest grew out of it by age 7 or so. He is now a very chilled out teenager. I have found for both of them it works best to give them a certain level of autonomy rather than try to pull rank as the parent.

It was really tough. We had to change our parenting quite a bit. We parent with few demands. We rarely use sanctions anymore as they seemed to inflame the situation. We would try to disengage as much as possible in the moment and address the behaviour later.

He improved with age! 4-7 were or toughest years.

Actually, agree with this 100%. This was our experience, too.

How do you cope
You just are mentally exhausted and other things like tidying and cleaning slip because you spend your time dealing with other stuff
You just do

Honestly? Dreadfully. Every day is a shitshow most of the time.

I'm looking in to a course called NVR. My son is on the ASD pathway and my DD is being referred for ADHD. Her impulsivity and hyperactivity is through the roof. My son can lash out at the drop of a hat!

You aren’t alone, I think it’s more common than people realise.

I am trying to not react, and keep calm. Easier said than done though!

I would look at Self-Reg by Stuart Shanker, yes to The Explosive Child too, and there is an interesting but ridiculously long book called Who's In Charge by Eddie Gallagher. I've read most of it but it is STUPIDLY long and keeps repeating itself. I would recommend it, but skip to the chapter called "Unacceptable and Acceptable Behaviours" and just read from there, if you're intrigued by the other chapters you can go back and read them afterwards but they aren't very useful.

This behaviour sounds exactly like my DD10. She is diagnosed PDA profile ASD. Please look up the PDA society, they have lots of resources and advice.

PDA profile of autism is quite unique and most importantly, parenting techniques that generally work well for NT kids will only make the behaviour worse if your child has PDA.

Unfortunately we are several years down the track with this and there are no hard and fast solutions. Working on your bond, exploring their interests, reducing demands and having a range of approaches for different scenarios helps, because most parents of PDA kids will tell you, what works one day will not work on another day.

Feel free to message me if you want to reach out. It's hard work.

This.

I second, third having a look at PDA. My youngest is diagnosed with this. It sounds like your poor kid is masking so hard he can’t cope anymore. So when he is being violent like that he is having a complete breakdown. I would steer clear of sanctions, threats etc I mean I imagine you’ve tried this anyway without success? Most of us with children like this have learnt the hard way that simplistic approaches like this don’t work and make things worse.

PDA strategies might be useful even if he isn’t PDA. Dr Naomi Fisher has webinars that might help.

Interesting! Absolutely no one is interested in seeking out a diagnosis as he is a role model everywhere else bar home. Infact most people don’t really believe me when I have said what’s going on. The whole thing is so weird.

Consider if he is masking in school / other settings and whether part of what you have going on is the coke bottle effect too.

Okay. I shall look up PDA and see if we have a fit behaviourally. Is he is genius clever? No I don’t think so. Is he tracking the top of his year group currently? Yes.

I guess my thoughts on the typically NT is that he’s very sociable, plays sports to a high level. I can’t think of a mainstream autistic trait that he would have. The PDA thing though sounds much more possible.

Oh and another thing we’ve noticed is sugar is a massive trigger as is tiredness. The more tired the more volatile. He is also constantly on the go. Rarely sits down.

F

I recommend exploring PDA strategies, as they can lead to noticeable improvements within a month. Please visit the PDA Society website for more information, as others have suggested. It's common for children to mask their struggles and then release their emotions at home. You might find the "cola bottle analogy" helpful in understanding what he is experiencing.

Instead of saying "no," try responses like "I will think about it," "I know you really want X, but I can't get it for you this time," or "We can't do it today, but we can next week." He needs calm adults to help him co-regulate. During a meltdown, he can't reason; give him space, speak slowly and calmly with few words, and avoid arguing. You might say, "I see you feel terrible. I am here. It's okay to have big feelings."

(Sorry for any language issues, as English is not my first language.)

This does sound like my 11 year old who is also very clever, sociable and loves sports. NEVER any problem at school or with others. Saves it all for home.

I'm never about it escalating when he goes to secondary. How do I start with a diagnosis, or even do I?, if he masks everywhere but at home.

No advice, but it's very tough to manage. I don't manage it well I think.

This is absolutely classic of PDA profile autism and high IQ. Their intelligence allows them to mimic social norms and to ‘cope’ in unfamiliar territory. It’s exceedingly hard work and, when they perceive themselves to be ‘safe’ their absolute core need and desire for control and autonomy comes to the surface. This may be in a number of ways but extreme violence and emotional meltdowns are common.

You need to act because your son is at serious risk of full blown autistic burnout. Thats when they can no longer mask and literally can’t cope with any demands. That’s when school refusal etc all comes in.

I think you need to go and speak to the school SENCO, ideally armed with evidence of what home life is like. Videos of him losing control and punched walls etc. Take statements from your eldest child. Take evidence you have done a shit ton of parenting courses, because a bad SENCO will try and blame parenting.

Find out what your referral pathway into NHS community paeds is like for ND assessment - some places it’s school, some places it’s GP, some places it’s HV.

What are finances like? I would be looking at a private OT assessment to look at sensory needs and coping strategies at home and primarily at school. He needs regular breaks and ways to demask and gain control at school. OTs are exceptional at this stuff.

If finances stretch to it you could look at a private diagnosis of autism.

Look at Dr Naomi Fischer, At Peace Parenting and The Neurodiversity Podcast who cover a lot about twice exceptional children. Read The Explosive Child.

Here if you want to chat x

Edired to add: Is he tracking the top of his year group currently? Yes

This highly likely makes him twice exceptional/2e/gifted. People assume genius and autism means savant or something like that. Your son is clearly exceptional but also clearly has a learning disability, from what you have written.

You can self refer to CAMHS for an assessment, it doesn’t matter if the school aren’t complaining. Any decent assessment will take into account the dysregulation and contrast between home and school. CAMHS though has massive waitlists. I’d refer and then look at private assessment while you’re waiting for the NHS one, but get the ball rolling. If you look up the ADOS questionnaires, and Conners. AFAIK the diagnosis of PDA doesn’t stand alone for the NHS but can be down as co-occurring.

I agree with pp, I don’t see your child as being neurotypical from what you’ve said. Different behaviours at school is almost a nothing these days in terms of how we understand ND to manifest.

School SENCO will not be interested. I absolutely know that for sure. Private diagnosis is definitely possibly but I’ve no idea where I’d even start with that.

Have you tried filming him at home?

You won't get help unless someone can see the problem, and nobody in school will support you if he isn't a squeaky wheel there.