How’s your house function normally with an incredibly angry/disruptive child in it?

[EvangelicalAboutButteredToast]

I’m pondering this tonight as we’ve crashed into the bank holiday weekend in absolute turmoil again due to my eight year olds behaviour.

Manages to be a role model student at school but has been exceptionally dysregulated at home since the age of four. No ACES. No diagnosis, presents as NT I would say. Extremely controlling which I know can go hand in hand with anxiety.

In the last few days they have put a hole in the wall, thrown everything around when angry. Blocked me into various rooms whilst hitting me and pushing me continuously. Pushed my eleven year old around and blocked them from leaving areas. Will scream and scream for over an hour. Demands their own way at all times. Cannot cope with being told no. Extremely defiant, never acquiesces on anything. Most disagreeable personality I think I’ve met.

I’ve approached lots of outside help in the last four years and attended training courses through my work and privately. The best I can do is manage it. Down the line I can honestly see it breaking the family up. My partner (the children’s dad) is barely coping really. We grab a tiny amount of time together each day to have a relationship but our child dominates everything. Days out get ruined. Days in creates a war in the house. I’m honestly at a bit of a loss.

can anyone else relate and if so, how are you all managing and did anything improve with time? By the way this child is EXTREMELY bright and has a wonderful group of friends and a hobby they love. No financial worries. No arguing between partner and I.

You would be best either posting on here roughly (ie county level) where you live annd ansking for recommendations or asking on a local FB group for parents of neurodiverse children.

I know it’s terrifying but you need to get the SENCO interested. The pressures of school are a massive contributing factor to this. That’s why I would start with an OT assessment if finances allow. They can mediate with school about adaptions he may need and it isn’t all coming from you.

i work at the school. SENCO is completely inundated with children who can’t tap into education currently. I promise you I won’t be able to get her even slightly interested.

So how do I go about a private diagnosis? Where shall I start?

Area Of the country is East Anglia.

I would head over to the SEN board and ask for recommendations of private autism assessment services in East Anglia that are known to be confident diagnosing PDA subtype. I would also look and see if you have a FB group for your town or city or county for parents of neurodiverse children and ask the exactly the same question there.

Can I ask where abouts you are where you can self refer to CAHMS? Our county doesn’t allow self referral. 😩

My DD referral was rejected due to not being severe enough. She hasn’t been school in weeks, nor left the house, suffers with emetophobia and currently in the process of an ASD referral.

PDA is not an official diagnosis as it's not on dsm -IV and also not common. "Asd with demand avoidance" is the term commonly used in the UK instead of pda autism. He may be just a sensitive NT child who finds school life difficult for some reason. I would skip paediatricians and see a child psychiatrist. Some highly intelligent kids may have sensory sensitivities, how is he about food, noise, clothes, change? Pda strategies would work with most defiant children regardless they are being ND or NT. They are so easy and effective and I use them with my NT children as well as my super charming pdaer. It's just a wonderful tool that you can keep in your mummy bag to help your child regulate and relax.

@mrsmiserable Thank You for this. Where is a good place to read up on strategies?

www.pdasociety.org.uk/life-with-pda-menu/family-life-intro/helpful-approaches-children/

I would skip paediatricians and see a child psychiatrist

Where I am, it’s developmental paediatrics who diagnose autism, not CAMHs/child psychiatrists. In fact, I think it’s most commonly developmental paeds across the country.

I have a son like this, finally assessed at 11. His masking dropped at school around 9. Asbergers (as they used to say) and gifted. Fuck me but it was extremely hard from 8-12.

He doesn’t find school difficult. I’m assuming he may be masking at school but he shows no signs of concern at school. Happily goes, gets pristine reports, has lots of friends. Does as he is told at school. Respects authority. It’s at home when it completely changes. If I say left, he says right. If I say up, he says down. He needs to control all of us and we must bend to his will. If we don’t all hell breaks lose. That’s the problem.

What autistic traits did your child have if you don’t mind me asking? I just can’t see any of the typical ones with mine. Never obsessed about anything. No tippy toes or stimming. Hit all his milestones early. No speech problems or social problems.

Very, very few typical traits. Very good eye contact, interested in friendships. No stimming....etc.
He used to try really hard to make friends but from 8 onwards they used to disintegrate. We honestly didn't suspect autism at all. It's more obvious now, his vocal cadence and his rigid thinking is very obvious.
On the bright side he is far more pleasant and really very funny.

My son 11 is exactly like this. Model student and sporty. Has huge breakdowns at home. Paid for educational psych as his (excellent)teacher last year suspected dyslexia or soething cognitive that he works super hard to mask. No diagnosis from testing but results suggested inattentive adhd. Paid for add diagnostic tests. No diagnosis as no evidence of any issues whatsoever at school and they need to show it at home and school to diagnose. So, we just have to wait and see if it all goes OK once at secondary. Ed psych says yr9 is often a tricky year for boys so to keel in touch with her if/when school are able to witness any issues we see at home. He is incredibly bright and a joy to be around...until he's not...but many wouldn't believe it, and I have to remember 90%of the time he's great but when we're in a difficult patch it gets down. He's maturing a bit and able to get himself out of his "moments" quicker and he's getting better at talking about things but they are still extreme. Its like he has no control of himself at tines. Ed Psych said he needs dopamine to feel good and in control so to encourage and let him do as much of his sports he is good at will do him the world of good. It definitely helps. But it's ups and downs! I'm focusing on the amazing brain he has and to try channel that into things he can do great things with...

My eldest child sits in the spectrum somewhere I believe. He was declared NT at the age of five after an assessment but I don’t believe it for a second. He presents completely differently though which is why I thought my youngest was NT. My eldest has more typical traits - rigid thinking. Small social circle. Obsessed with pressing buttons and riding in lifts etc. Hatred of loud noises, gets freaked out by the phone rings. Not at all sporty as uncoordinated. My eldest is also very bright but was very behind until he was around 9, now exceeding educationally. Whereas youngest has always been ahead of the game school wise.

It's hard when it affects siblings also - so I do feel your pain. Hate feeling like we're tiptoeing around him if he's having one of his moments

I didn't really. DD was violent and destructive until about 14yrs old (2yrs ago). The house was destroyed and I'm only slowly straightening it up now. NVR course helped a bit, severe threats of being arrested from the early "help" worker and her now dropping out of school entirely have "solved it".

School never gave a shit until her attendance wobbled in year 8.

How are you coping now she’s no longer attending school? Are you home schooling?

Pda society website also explains diagnostic pathway for both nhs and private. If you go with private please make sure it follows NICE guidelines, it has to be multidisciplinary team assessment and ideally with a specialist work both for nhs and privately. I am sorry, I would like to help you guys but I'm not a professional.

My house didn't function normally.

Things we did:

Put bolts or latches on bedroom doors so there are safe rooms

Encourage the anger to come out using pillows

Started them both at martial arts classes (a focus on control and not using it outside the class)

Have you heard of PDA? It's a type of autism if you read up on that it may ring some bells.

Read the book by Ross Greene. The explosive child. I found this really helped my family.

But yeah I have an explosive and controlling child. Things have improved but basically his needs broke the family once he lost his school la e and I had to stop work to care for him. I'm left in this hell alone.

Sounds like demand avoidant profile of autism to me.
I have a 7yo who is very similar, behaviour not as extreme but still challenging, recently diagnosed with autism.
Regardless of a diagnosis (I know your child doesn't have one) you can still apply some of the advice for parenting your child and see if it helps.
There is a book called "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene which a lot of people recommend; I haven't read it yet myself but it's on my list.
I found the advice on the PDA Society website helpful.
There is also a website "At Peace Parents" and it's mainly paid-for content but there is a free 'clarity masterclass' which I watched and found spot on for describing my son's behaviour, it's a helpful way of framing and understanding it.

The usual route for NHS assessment and diagnosis is a referral by the school SENCO. However, there is another option - Right to Choose. You find a private provider that accepts NHS funding and then ask your GP to refer. That's how I got my son assessed and diagnosed.

However, if you want to go private, since you say you're in the East of England, I would suggest Help 4 Psychology in Norwich.

It seems like he's excelling at school, but do you think he might be using up all his energy there and just wants to relax and do the bare minimum when he gets home? What is your parenting style? Do both of you have strong personalities? Maybe try giving him more choices to help him feel more empowered and free. Pick your battles for a while. Negotiate and use humor to help him feel more in control.

Your two sound like mine but the other way round, my oldest is the angry one and my middle the one with the autism diagnosis who was way behind at school but ended up excelling in the end.
I actually discovered Mumsnet hunting for clues as to why my son was good at school but so awful at home ( this is nearly 20 years ago).
I always knew something was up, bit he had goo
d eye contact, was socially motivated, well behaved at school and sporty! Not top of the class like your son as he has issues with concentrating.
It has been a long hard road, I eventually found out about PDA and adapted how I handled him to minimise conflict ( DH never quite got the hang of this) and as he got older and had more autonomy he was a bit better.
He has an ADHD dx but says himself he has autistic traits, good ADHD meds help him control his emotions better.
He still can't handle demands easily.
It's been very hard, I haven't had the family life I imagined, one that hurts is the lack of a close sibling bond with his brothers. I worry about how they are affected by witnessing his outbursts.
He burnt out in high school and is about five years behind his peers ATM but is coping with university while living at home ( but can not do anything while exams are on, he doesn't get dressed unless he's going out!).
I could write pages but it's late!
Trust your instincts that something isn't right and don't wait for others to agree, they don't know how bad it is.
If you do manage to get help don't be surprised if the first couple of things you try don't work ( family therapy was awful!) but keep going.

It's late and I need to go to bed, but I wanted to say our 5yo was well on his way to becoming like this. We've cut out gluten and it's been transformational. I'm not hippy dippy or alternative and would definitely pursue an ND assessment, but try this as well in the meantime. Happy to discuss in more detail if you want, just om me!