How’s your house function normally with an incredibly angry/disruptive child in it?

[EvangelicalAboutButteredToast]

I’m pondering this tonight as we’ve crashed into the bank holiday weekend in absolute turmoil again due to my eight year olds behaviour.

Manages to be a role model student at school but has been exceptionally dysregulated at home since the age of four. No ACES. No diagnosis, presents as NT I would say. Extremely controlling which I know can go hand in hand with anxiety.

In the last few days they have put a hole in the wall, thrown everything around when angry. Blocked me into various rooms whilst hitting me and pushing me continuously. Pushed my eleven year old around and blocked them from leaving areas. Will scream and scream for over an hour. Demands their own way at all times. Cannot cope with being told no. Extremely defiant, never acquiesces on anything. Most disagreeable personality I think I’ve met.

I’ve approached lots of outside help in the last four years and attended training courses through my work and privately. The best I can do is manage it. Down the line I can honestly see it breaking the family up. My partner (the children’s dad) is barely coping really. We grab a tiny amount of time together each day to have a relationship but our child dominates everything. Days out get ruined. Days in creates a war in the house. I’m honestly at a bit of a loss.

can anyone else relate and if so, how are you all managing and did anything improve with time? By the way this child is EXTREMELY bright and has a wonderful group of friends and a hobby they love. No financial worries. No arguing between partner and I.

With NHS yes, with private it can be developmental paediatrician or child psychiatrist.

Sounds exactly like my DN who has diagnoses of pathological demand avoidance & ASD. Now has EHC but school were a nightmare because they didn't see any of the difficulties as they were only presented at home in his safe place.

This is all so familiar to me OP. You could have described my son, the defiance, the rage etc. he was the most defiant child I’ve ever met, wasn’t cowed by us at all. It was all so strange to me, as a child if my parents had bollocked me firmly I’d have probably cried, not squared up to them. Like yours sociable with friends, extremely bright (genius level from about 3-8, now has settled down a bit), likes sports.

diagnosed as autistic last year. We went private because we’d just moved to a new area and the school didn’t know him plus the huge waiting lists for any help. It’s helped my son to know there is something and also for us to know it wasn’t just us being shit parents. We doubted ourselves for so long. We were in a couple of years of hell and the impact on his younger sibling was terrible as he’d lash out at her all the time. At the worst points we thought about having two properties with the adults moving between them to give the younger one a bit of a normal childhood without living in this angry, explosive upset environment.

ps find the PDA thing interesting as I asked about it at diagnosis and they said they don’t diagnose with that, just autism or not etc.

"the impact on his younger sibling was terrible as he’d lash out at her all the time. At the worst points we thought about having two properties with the adults moving between them to give the younger one a bit of a normal childhood without living in this angry, explosive upset environment."

I could have written this, word for word.

Pps the other thing the private diagnosis team made clear to us at the start is just having the diagnosis is not going to solve everything. There is no pill they can prescribe. But it’s helped the school - where he wasn’t actually a problem till this year. They’ve done Lego therapy with him and some other kind of group sociable thing. The thing is your son may be perfect at school at the moment but if he is masking in any way it can get harder for them as their friends become more sophisticated and complex and the academic work becomes harder .

Gosh I don’t even know what my parenting style is anymore. I’m strict with manners but relaxed everywhere else. Family life without the turmoil is fun and happy. Unfortunately it becomes scary when he melts down. So we swing between everyone happy and laughing to him barricading me in a room. It’s so weird.

God it was awful. When he was beginning one of his rages she’d run and hide in her room. Sometimes we relied on her being such a good little girl and an hour would pass while we dealt with him. When I went to look at her she’d be quietly playing on her floor and my heart would break for her wishing she’d been born into a familiy with a loving normal squabbles type of sibling.

I’m also contemplating this currently 😭

In the last few days I’ve heard my eleven year old sobbing himself to sleep as he can hear screaming and carnage downstairs and there’s literally nothing I can do. Can’t get to him. Can’t comfort him. I absolutely hate it.

Oh and my kids have zero chores. I wanted them to have a childhood that was free to have fun. There are no demands on them outside of being good people. I take them to their extra curriculars. Work around their schooling. Have no social life myself so am always there at bedtime. They’ve never had a baby sitter even. Honestly this is a childhood with zero trauma except the ones they’ve caused through their own behaviour 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

I would urge you to get a diagnosis. We did not, had a very bright ds, was fine in social situations but at home was very much like your ds. He is now 24 and thinks he might have autism. His anger was scary. As he got older he found planning difficult, lost things, leaves important things to the last minute. His anger is much better now. He does regular exercise which helps. He still is in constant movement even when sat down. His mental health was very poor in his later teens. Nothing was ever flagged at school. I wish I had done things differently but i felt in the dark and alone.

I found when DD had these melt downs we would sit in the living room and ignore her, not a look, not a word, and she ran out of steam earlier - I suppose by engaging you give the impression there’s a chance of control.

Evengalical- I just have to say you sound like a wonderful mum and very tuned with your son. Have you had a chance to look at pda society website? Another useful tool is "energy accounting" by Dr Tony Attwood and Maya Toudal. Also, The explosive child and the self-driven child book by William stixrud are great to understand this type of behaviour and find a solution. I had the most difficult child, who was extremely defiant and destruptive both at home and school. With all these strategies in place he is such a delightful, well behaved child and he has become very easy to parent. Still have some moments (rare) but we all also know how to deescalate quickly.

If he’s happy to go to school, thriving there and doing really well (including making and maintaining functional friendships), what’s different about the school environment? Is it that it is a very clear, structured environment so he knows what the parameters are?

I didn’t think masking was a recognised “thing”, much as demand avoidance is (mentioned up thread). As difficult as it might seem, something about the home environment is setting him off. I’d check that if school is genuinely not a case for concern.

Thank you @mrsmiserable I’m honestly trying my best!!!

I have so far followed as many PDA groups as I can find on Facebook. My next plan are ordering the books mentioned on here. That will also help with my job too.

evan no home schooling either sadly. She's calm, but shut down. I'm hoping her school or the local authority can pull strings and get her support for year 11.

Sounds like it could be ADHD, with or without autism.

Sounds like they have been spoiled though? You being a mummy martyr won't make them into the person you want them to be , they need responsibility.

My nephew has PDA but he also has some problems like dyscalculia and possible ADHD so he has never had that thing of seeming perfect at school, however he is very good at masking for short periods and has no problem with eye contact etc. My mum remembers taking him to an event and he was lovely and charmed everyone then as soon as he got back to the car instant meltdown. It's like the pendulum swung back.

Sorry to hear your story op. We have similar here as in the rages and aggressive meltdowns although different as they have been difficult at school since the age of three and do have diagnoses (not ASD.)

They were permanently excluded from two schools and out of school for two years which was the worst period of all. They attacked me and trashed the house all day long. All the agencies have been involved including social services and the police.

It’s still awful now they are a young adult but not as extreme. Tbh I look back and think I wish I had said I couldn’t look after them because of the damage done to the family. (I know it’s not as easy as that but it did become close for safety reasons.)

I think you should pursue a diagnosis but that will not be the magic answer. It’s hard to say in your son’s case but I do think you need some extra help. I found puberty aged ten was the worst time so anything you can do to get him on an even keel before then might help.

You are probably doing it already but on a day to day level splitting into pairs so doing different things one parent one child - swapping around though so each child gets each parent and each parent gets a break from the high intensity

Trying to get your other child and a parent away when the tension is rising - out to the park, the shops anything

We found that as parents it's easier to manage the high intensity child one on one, the two of us trying to deal with a situation fanned the flames and caused arguments between ourselves as we got more stressed and took it out on each other

What extracurriculars does he do? What are his male role models like?

My school SENCO was crap. Until I had a private diagnosis.

SENCO is just an additional responsibility added onto a regular teacher ( at least where I am). They don’t have the time or training to develop a specialism. Or like ours, she has done it as part of her career pathway, rather than any real interest.

Definitely not spoiled.

its easy to swing between the assumption of too strict/too restrictive and too loose/spoiled. I know many spoiled kids, mine aren’t one of them. They understand the value of things, have to wait for the things they want and most things are second hand. Because I am present there is zero guilt parenting. They have access to screens but these are monitored and time restricted. They work hard at school and are praised for the effort not the attainment. They are polite and well mannered outside the house.

OP you say you have a relaxed parenting style but that obviously isn't working and needs to change.

What happens when he hits one of his family members?