How would you discipline a 5 year old for saying this horrific thing?

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My mum was looking after my five year old today while I was at work. She had told him he would have an ice cream from the shop next to the park after school, but by the time they had left the park it was fine for dinner so said it was now too late for an ice cream.

He kicked off massively in the shop, falling to the floor and screaming/shouting. He then ran off down the road and another parent went after him, whom he proceeded to also shout at.

He said to mum he hope she's gets run over by a car. She said that is an awful thing to say, particularly to family, he said he hopes she gets abandoned by her family.

I am so unbelievably cross, shocked and upset with him.

I'm not sure how to play this in terms of consequences and discipline?

You’ve made it worse now … Rum n raisin sounds excellent.

Which is exactly why I think it’s important for OP to talk to her son about the comment.
To find out where that comment derives from, experience, books, playground, tv etc etc etc . He may not know, buts it’s always good to talk.

He's 5 and was promised an ice cream and then wasn't allowed one? That's like a parenting 101 thing not to do, of course he was upset!
5 year olds can't control their emotions very well. They also say horrible things sometimes ("you're the meanest mum in the world") but haven't got the emotional capability to understand what they're say or the impact of it on the other person.
Of course he didn't really want his Grandmother to get run over. Tbh I would have struggled to keep a straight face if one of mine had said that to me.
I wouldn't do anything, it's too late now. You could possibly have a chat about not saying mean things to people and making Granny feel sad but it's not likely to have much impact at his age

You're actually "furious"?🤨

Exactly, I have a 9 year old who is generally well behaved but I wouldn't like to put her to the test in this scenario! Ice cream denial is a big deal

He wouldn't be disciplined for being upset. He'd be disciplined for having a tantrum in the shop, running off, shouting at another parent, and saying a rude and hurtful thing to his gran, all because he didn't get an ice cream he was expecting.

And so I know if I make a similar mistake, what should she have done in the shop? Offered to buy sweets instead? I expect the DGS would still have not been happy. Buy the ice cream and DGS wouldn't have eaten is dinner

She should have kept her promise and bought the ice cream and had dinner later. Or kept an eye on the time so this scenario didn't happen in the first place.
Of course adults make mistakes all the time but a 5 year old isn't capable of understanding that or care! He just wanted his ice cream

I’m going to step away before I eat an icecream. I have no grandma to tell me ‘no’.

Dependability is very important I agree. But sometimes people get ill or stuck on a train or simply can’t come through.

Children have to learn to handle that.

I’d still get him the ice- cream today tho - especially as on balance in this instance I would have let him spoil his dinner at the time after promising it. But there will be other instances where learning how to handle disappointment appropriately will be useful. And no you can’t grow up to tell people you hope they are run over or abandoned, and he needs to think his his words impact people; but he’s throwing out the two greatest fears in his life at a moment when a Terrible Deed is being perpetrated. I wouldn’t read any more into those comments than that.

But that was related to his upset. It was an immature way of handling his upset.

I think the difficulty with discipline in this situation is that in a five year old’s mind he isn’t the one in the wrong. He needs it explained that he is and how.

Obv I do not know the future but think it is fair to say broken promises are likely to continue if the OP (mum) and Nana’s first instinct is Nana did nothing wrong by breaking her promise and the 5yo’s reaction to it was “horrific” and he deserves to be “punished”.

I strongly disagree with most posters saying it’s ok he is 5 and was not given an ice cream as promised.

He has said something vile, calculated and plausible (getting hit by a car) and I would be worried he has sociopathic tendencies.

You must pull him up, be very very firm, and punish him appropriately. He must know that his words were absolutely not ok. Even more so if he is bright as you say, and understands the meaning of his words.

This is different to him just saying “I hate you” for not getting what he wants. His words would make my blood run cold.

I think in an age appropriate way, explain to him that saying cruel things and name calling, when he doesn't get his own way, is not the way to go about it when you are angry. I'd tell him that anger isn't an excuse to hurt someone's feelings.

I think he is old enough to be explained to why this isn't appropriate. There will probably be some nay sayers he's only fiveeeeeeee but this is probably why some people grow up with no manners and think there is no consequence to their actions.

Yes he is five and blurted out things that he may not fully understand the weight of his words. But I would say to him, imagine if someone did that to you, would you like someone to say those things to you? Definitely help him reflect on it and empathy sometimes arises by putting yourself in someone's shoes. I think that's the appropriate course.

It's the hurtful things that have bothered me the most, because I know he knows how unkind that is.

On what planet is a adult breaking a promise of less concern to you than a five year old saying nasty things in response to that oathbreaking?

I personally would say it's not necessary to pick a side on this one. The situation is a very normal one that happens every day somewhere. Yes, the GM could probably not have promised an ice-cream and then backtracked. Yes, the 4 y.o reacted in a way that was not acceptable (but also was normal). Presumably this was all in the context of a loving imperfect family that at that moment did not have the time or maybe inclination to act things out as if they were in a child rearing textbook. That means the aftermath needs to be dealt with. The child needs to learn that you do not tell people you love (or anyone!) to get run over/die, however angry you are. The Grandparent needs to feel that the child is aware of this (and also could do with some lessons about the logic of tantrums). If your first lesson in disappointment is your Gran telling you you can't after all have an ice cream that's great isn't it. Better than ending up telling the teacher at school to die because you thought you were getting star of the week because you've never been disappointed before surely?

I also would like to point out regardless of whether he was promised an ice cream, does not give him the right to be rude and say horrible things to someone. He has to be taught on a level you can with a five year old, that isn't on. Otherwise you're not teaching them correct ways to communicate.

It's by the by whether nana or grandma promised an ice cream. That can be discussed afterwards but unfortunately, the world lets you down a lot as you grow up. Better to be prepared for it. Maybe it's a further discussion on to react appropriately to those situations.

I'm more concerned where he's heard these things being said for him to repeat them.

My DS 7 has never told anyone he hopes they get hit by a car or abandoned by their family. Very odd language to choose from and quite frankly, an awful reaction from him.

I get he was disappointed but I would certainly be making sure he knew he could never say shit like that again

Your mother was being horrible. Firstly, she promised an ice cream and then didn’t deliver and secondly she told on your son. I would tell her off not your son. My grandchildren have said some horrible things to me that they didn’t mean. They are generally well behaved and polite.

I get that and if there had been a reason such as the Nan got injured or there was an emergency of some kind then that would have to be a disappointment dealt with. But I don’t want to spoil dinner and taking them to the shop where the ice creams but saying nope, I know I said you can have one but now i am chasing my mind is just cruel and lame. I mean, come on. A 5 year old has no deep understanding of what he’s said. He’s just saying something he thinks is bad because he’s really upset.
In any case, if my husband promised me 2 weeks in the Maldives and then at the air port showed me the plane and said he had simply changed his mind so we are not going, I’m not sure of the words that would come out of mouth and I know that would affect my relationship with him going forward.

kicked off massively falling to floor an screaming but is also very mature

ok

if you prmised me age 49 an ice cream i kickoff aswell

Surely your nan is the one person you can rely on not to let you down?
Bit of a sorry state of affairs in your life if you think a 5 year old should be taught that even closest family members can and will let you down. I would never want my 5 year old learning that.

Yes. My blood was boiling when I read the OP’s post and responses.
Feel so cross for the child and lack of understanding of his actions by his mum and Nan- the two people who are meant to understand him most.

Respectfully OP you have no idea about your child’s critical thinking. I understand he has been told these are hurtful words, but in the moment he was so upset he didn’t have control of his impulses. My 5 year old regularly says I’m the meanest mummy etc if he’s upset by something I’m not letting him do/have. My older child has always been very articulate and seemed older than his years and looking back DH and I were so much harder on him because of it as it “felt” like he was older and should know better, when in reality he didn’t. Is this your first DC?

A conversation when everything is calm is all that’s needed, and perhaps next time you’re near the road he will have to hold hands because he ran off last time.

Exactly, the op is making too big a deal of a fairly normal occurrence.

I’d say a week long screen/tv ban and a chat about why that’s happened each time either is requested. Those are very grown up concepts, so I’d consider speaking to a child therapist if this language is consistent.