How would you discipline a 5 year old for saying this horrific thing?

[avata]

My mum was looking after my five year old today while I was at work. She had told him he would have an ice cream from the shop next to the park after school, but by the time they had left the park it was fine for dinner so said it was now too late for an ice cream.

He kicked off massively in the shop, falling to the floor and screaming/shouting. He then ran off down the road and another parent went after him, whom he proceeded to also shout at.

He said to mum he hope she's gets run over by a car. She said that is an awful thing to say, particularly to family, he said he hopes she gets abandoned by her family.

I am so unbelievably cross, shocked and upset with him.

I'm not sure how to play this in terms of consequences and discipline?

My 3.5 year old recently told me that he "hated me and I was a bad mummy" because I sent him to nursery without his spiderman bottle (I couldn't find it, so sent him in with mine, which is sub-par as it lavks superheroes of any sort), then kicked over a footstool in a rage 😂😅I told him that even if he hated me, I would always love him, but that he would be in trouble if he kicked the stool again, because it was dangerous. Clearly he'd been fuming about it all day and was waiting to tell me off!

Seriously though. I would coach him that his feelings are valid and okay to have, but it doesn't excuse running off or unkindness.

On a side note, I feel sorry for your poor mum too, having a dramatic time of it today, then getting hammered on mumsnet! Clearly her intentions of park, icecream, then not having his dinner spoiled, were good and wholesome (if a bit misguided at a critical moment). I hope she is okay too.

"Ugly old troll" 🤣 So innocent. So brutal.

And also next week on MN: “why are 5 year olds so badly behaved these days?”

I can’t believe some of these responses! 5 is perfectly old enough to know that sometimes circumstances change, we can’t always have what we want, and what he said to his grandmother is very wrong and nasty. No wonder children’s behaviour is deteriorating if so many of you would give into such a brattish tantrum.

OP I wouldn’t discipline him now, it’s too late for him to really connect it with what he’s done, but I’d sit him down and explain to him why things changed and why what he said wasn’t nice.

I don't think what he said was particularly horrific for a 5 year old. He is unlikely to have much concept of death or what getting run over means except it's bad.

I have a 4.5 year old. I think she would be pretty gutted and might get quite upset in this scenario. Sometimes plans change and I would have apologised to her at the time that I couldn't keep my promise and possibly suggested another thing to make up for it. I can imagine her crying for few minutes, probably refusing to hold my hand or leave the shop without persuasion. I wonder if gran downplayed it at the time or told him not to be silly for being upset? This would make it worse in my experience. I think it's okay he was upset and disappointed by what happened. I wouldn't expect my child to throw herself on the floor or run off and the running off in particular could be really dangerous. I would be more concerned about that than the things he said. Makes me wonder how used to being disappointed/managing difficult feelings he is? It definitely needs a discussion to tell him it wasn't kind and why he can't run off, but I think you have to start from acknowledging what gran did wasn't fair.

At five he would still have a very limited understanding of the concept of death. So no, he doesn’t want his grandma to die, he just said a bunch of words. Did he mean to be hurtful; yes and that’s what the op needs to speak to him about but let’s not blow things out of proportion.

He is five.

He understands that the grown-ups are serious about cars and being run over. So naturally, when the time comes to say something to express how serious he feels, that's his go-to.

And if he hasn't read the fairy tales, it's very likely he's seen the Disney versions.

You have no idea what your children dwelt on in their heart of hearts after having Harry Potter read to them, or what will strike them as time goes on.

Getting run over by a car is very unlikely playground trash talk because it's pretty much the nuclear option.

Abandonment is a deep fear of children. At five, they begin to both want independence and fear it.

He might have experienced a feeling of abandonment or being separated from loved ones unexpectedly himself, even in a situation like losing sight of mummy or daddy in the supermarket or at the beach or in the park or swimming pool. Even a fleeting feeling can make an impression when children are young.

@ClairDeLaLune I agree. 5 years old is not the same as 3 years old. I second what you wrote.

I appreciate this is different to having my own child of that age (mine is only months old) but I’ve been teaching in Year 1 for 4 years. I can name maybe 2 or 3 children I’ve come across in that time that would say something like that (granted, in a school environment, but still plenty of opportunity there to have circumstances change or have to wait for something they want, be excited for something and then not have time to do it, etc).

He certainly does need a cuddle and an ice cream at another point to make up for the big feelings he felt but he absolutely needs to know that what he said was unacceptable, very hurtful and NOT how to deal with disappointment.

He was hangry.
He was lied to.
Those two combinations are quite challenging even for the most mature of adults.

When you're getting to the bottom of how we express our frustration and keep ourselves safe give examples of how you/dad/nan are able to do so when hangry.

It’s not your child’s fault. He was just lashing out at the unfairness of it.
He was promised an ice cream, but Nanna broke her promise.
Nanna should have been more aware of the time.
He didn’t mean what he said, just said hurtful things because of his emotions.
Hope it can be sorted, Nanna regain trust

Next time tell grandma not to mention the ice cream unless she is going to deliver

^

This. Golden rule.

Jesus I'm 40 and if my grandma did this to me I'd have trouble not kicking off, let alone a 5 year old who is learning to regulate his emtotions. Can you imagine how disappointed he would have been? Bollocks to the suggestion "that's life". Poor kid.

You say to grandma - if you promise something you deliver. Sorry he had a hissyfit but he is only 5.

You say to your son - I understand how frustrating it was when you were promised an ice cream and then it was taken away. That is hard. And you can feel frustrated and angry. You cannot run away and you must realise that when you say mean things people you love will get upset. Is that what you want? Do not ever say those things again. Write a note to grandma saying sorry.

Then you move on.

I cannot for the life of me comprehend people wanting punishment of a 5 year old. I've put a 5 year old in her room and told her to stay there - but that wasn't a punishment it was a removal from the fray.

But then I have never punished my children. I talked to them made absolutely sure they knew what we expected of people in our family and sometimes yelled at them but never punished them. they are 3 lovely young adults.

OP, I also have a very bright (she’s even been tested so it’s official!), extremely articulate 5.5yo. She is able to think critically. Until the inner rage monster takes over and she’ll say “I’m not going to let you be my mummy EVER AGAIN!!! I HATE YOU!!!”

As soon as he’s calm, he needs to be told it’s ok to be angry and granny did make a big mistake promising ice cream, but it’s not ok to say hurtful things even when we’re mad. End of discussion.

Your mum is the one who messed up here and I really hope she apologized thoroughly and modeled that adults make mistakes too.

Ahahaha

Sometimes I arrange to meet my Mum for a nice brunch. When I meet her she says she's actually already eaten and shall we go to Starbucks for a cup of tea instead. I think I'll try this tactic next time.

She broke her word. That’s very hurtful.

You see, I find this very odd - why would you eat if you're expecting to meet someone for brunch?

I would say "Well, you may have eaten, but I haven't, as I was expecting to eat now, so do you mind if we still go somewhere serving brunch and you can just have a coffee while I order food?"

Some kids are great mimics and do a VERY good job sometimes of appearing as if they understand and can process far more than they really can. Particularly kids with an apparently good grasp of language and vocab..

They do not have the level of understanding some adults think they have, nor do they have the necessary skills to regulate their emotions and behaviour, and exercise the impulse control needed in a situation that triggers big emotions.

Just as their motor control isn't great when they're little, and they can lash out and hit and punch and throw and bite very hard... they can do the same with words and concepts they do not fully understand the implications of.

Dial down your expectations here, punishing him heavily for this will not do him (or you) any favours. Likely for him, this crashing disappointment is akin to an adult finding out they are unemployed and bankrupt and homeless in the same moment - a spiraling, vomit-making pit of despair!

Tbh I am way over 5.5years old and I would be pissed off too with your mother

She lied to him

If it was so close to tea time when they left the park then why were they going into shops

Has your mother form of promising things that aren’t going to happen

Being a bright intelligent boy means you can’t lie to him because he will remember the lie

I'm with you 100% here.
@avata is your mother in the habit of winding your son up and then letting you know how dissapointingly he has behaved?
I can fully understand running out of time because they stayed too long at the park. But then it turns out they actually did have time to go to the shop? It was just, for some inexplicable reason, impossible for your mother to buy him the ice cream to have after tea?
I would be furious with my mother if she had done this.
(Edited for dodgy grammar)

Just tell him to apologise to grandma for saying something so unkind. Adults shouldn't make promises to kids that they can't keep.

I'd hope to react calmly to that but I wouldn't be making the same brunch plans with a person who did that. I think it helps that adults have more control over plans whereas at 5 you're completely dependent on the adult.

He's 5 ffs. I would expect the same tantrum from a 7 year old too. He was promised an ice cream and didn't get it having done nothing wrong. Poor kid.

He behaved in a totally age appropriate way!!