Is this normal for nursery? Asked to pick up early

[Cheeriosandoreos]

My DS is one years old and goes to nursery 2 days a week. He had a 2 week settling in period and has been doing full days for the past month.

He hates nursery, and has been teething for the past few weeks (think it’s molars coming in). He cries when we drop him off, but I think he calms down and plays for a bit during the day. He then gets upset again mid afternoon and starts crying a lot. And he can really cry, he is like that at home.

The problem is nursery keep asking us to come and collect him early when he gets upset in the afternoon. We usually get a message around 4ish. At the beginning they did not outright ask us to come and get him, but heavily suggested we should by letting us know how upset he was. We have then been going to collect him early. I think nursery may have got too used to this. However this is only possible because my husband is between contracts at the moment, when he starts his next contract neither of us will be able to do this.

My question is: is it normal / reasonable for nursery to keep expecting us it collect him early when he is crying but otherwise well (no fever etc)?

I fully expect for him to be sent home when he is unwell in line with their sickness policy. But I wasn’t expecting him to be sent home for crying too much. Nursery are worried that it will make him dislike them, but I think he just needs to get used to it.

he is our first, so we don’t have experience of how to handle this. It kills me that he’s unhappy, but I don’t think he will settle there unless he really has to, and importantly we need to work.

would I be reasonable in telling nursery to not send him home if he is crying?

Sadly though, there are families who have two incomes and are only just covering the essentials (rent/mortgage,.food and basic bills) and whilst the OP didn't indicate that this was her situation, she didn't indicate that it wasn't her situation either.

I agree with you to an extent that when you have children, they become the priority and your life has to change the fit around them, they also need a safe, warm home and food to eat, so it's a balancing act.

@Icehockeyflowers Nor do we need the guilting of working parents for doing their best to provide for their children.

Nor can we justify not compromising as adults because we want the newer cars, the furthest holidays and the bigger house. And for many, many people, they tell all and sundry that they are doing it for the kids. Its bullshit. They are doing it because they want to do it.

When we voluntarily become parents, we have to put our kids happiness and wellbeing first. If that means, reducing working hours, missing that promotion, driving an old car, that is what we need to do.

If we don't do it because we want long destination holidays and SUVs, that is a choice but do not then say that its in the children's interests to have those things.

I think the nursery think you or DH are WFH and will pick up early so they can have an easier time of it. They're always trying to palm a child or two off on to the parents who are paying ££££ for their services.

Your ds is probably tired and needs a nap. As he's only 2 days, he's not in the nursery regular routine. Your options are to switch him to nursery schedule all the time or make noises about it not working out as your dh has only been able to pick up at 4 due to being between contracts. They will probably stop it.

TBH I'd find a childminder as they sound lazy and not very good at settling upset children.

You obviously hang out with a more affluent crowd then I do @Icehockeyflowers. Most parents I know are not working long hours to pay for fancy holidays and big cars. Though they do have the temerity to aspire to a 3-bed terrace to raise their family in.

Well it depends where that three bed terrace is doesn't it CrispieCake.

And the OP has not implied she lives in a palace nor has she implied she lives in a shoebox with two other families so lets not change the narrative to suit our own arguments.. Compromises can and should be made when a child's wellbeing is the objective.

Only replying as I think you quoted me, but that particular set up was a husband and wife team, they had 6 children between them and all were babies aged 0-3. The busier day had 8 kids, when their daughter helped out (in her twenties).
It was geared to that age group and they were qualified and specialised for that age, with tons of toys and learning equipment.

So every childminder is different - as every nursery is. It’s just worth seeing as many places as possible OP and making the decision that’s best for your child.
Not every childminder is amazing, not every nursery is amazing, but some are.
(I was personally shocked when I visited a nursery that had 18 babies in their baby room, even though the staff ratio was the normal one. I’m sure some are wonderful for babies of course)

Just to follow on - in that childminder setting they ALL napped from 1-3pm, and the youngest had extra naps in the morning. So it can work :)

1 year olds may not want things but older children certainly do.

I grew up with a SAHM who cut back on everything including living in a not so desirable area (including not so desirable schools) and it was utterly miserable.

I didn't want that for my children.

The nursery sounds like they are not doing enough. I would have a chat to the manager or director and discuss what else they can do. Can they offer snacks, organise his naps a bit better to start. There are tons of things they could try before they give up and ask for an early pick up.

I found putting DD (who started daycare at 8 months) in for another day really helped adjust to daycare. DD went from 3 days to 4 days a week and has adjusted so well. It’s a great social environment. The staff were patient when we needed them to be.

That’s sort of what I mean though, @EdgarAllenRaven . I had a child who religiously woke at half five from 18 months onwards. A 1pm nap would be way, way too late for him. Any form of childcare is going to need a child to adapt to the environment but generally it’s easier when the children are at the same stage and when there’s more than one adult. There are great things about home based childcare but the myth that it’s this lovely chilled environment where children get individual input and so on is a myth.

Your poor child. The more you leave him to cry, the more he will hate nursery and not want to go back. What you are seeing is a trauma response. Nursery do not want your child to be traumatised. Please do not just leave him to cry. Honestly I could cry FOR him reading this.

@Cheeriosandoreos My baby was similar when she started nursery too, she was just over 1 and she used to absolutely howl every time she was handed over, and they would often say she spent much of her settling sessions upset and perked up a little towards the end.

I was lucky that we started her at nursery before I'd finished maternity leave so we had about 4 weeks where she could do settling sessions rather than attending full days.

Is there any scope for your little boy to do extra little settles in between his 2 days? Mine only does 2 days too, but while she was settling in and we could facilitate it nursery allowed us to take her in for an hour or two on a couple of extra days and it did really help. It allowed her to bond really well with one of the workers - who did end up having to carry her round with her everywhere for a few weeks! - and she just improved from there.

I think she did a couple of days of half an hour settles, then up to and hour the next week, with extras in between. Then she stayed for the whole morning and we picked her up at 1, then she stayed til 3...and then she stayed for the whole day when I went back to work.

She is 19 months now and absolutely loves to go. We were never called to pick her up early but from her parents' evening it was clear that she had been a tough one to settle in.

I think if the nursery are willing to work with you you can see this through. It is definitely worth asking about extra settle sessions in between his current days if possible.

I can understand it to a point as if he is getting too distressed it could make it a negative place for him, they're probably hoping if you do this for a little while he will stop soon. But they do need to try and find a way to settle him themselves really, that's what they do. How is he napping there, could he be getting really over tired by 4pm? x

Its not about leaving him to cry - its about the nursery staff finding their own way to settle him.

Hi
I don’t mean this to sound critical but do you really want to leave your son somewhere that he gets so upset?

Ok. Can a stranger settle your child? If they can, I’d be worried. Usually a child can only be comforted by those with whom they have an attachment.

This child has clearly been left at nursery in a state of panic and is therefore unable to form any attachments to staff. In the absence of attachment, no adult is able to calm a crying child. It is just not possible.

The issue here is the lack of empathy shown by OP towards her child. She wants to fix the issue as it’s an inconvenience to her life, rather than because she is alarmed by the child’s behaviour and wants to help him.

No, you're right, it's very difficult for a baby to be settled by a stranger but the problem is it is a necessity for many of us. My first daughter settled very easily at nursery, my second hasn't taken to it as well. It's made me very upset and anxious. I am a Mother who co-sleeps, still breastfeeds etc, my baby was is always attached to me when I'm with her. But I have to work, and I have had to have trust and faith in the nursery staff who are taking care of her to build a bond and that trust with her. It doesn't happen straight away, but if they are kind and caring she will begin to understand they can comfort her too. I think in this case the baby is probably very over tired by this point in the day, but after a few weeks the staff should be able to provide comfort.

It would break my heart to know that one of mine was so unhappy at nursery. I would definitely look at getting a childminder instead.

How many settling in sessions did he do? Did you stay with him for a few, so he got to know the staff there before you left him? Maybe try short/half days for a while and then slowly increase the length of his day. One is still very much a baby, and nursery is a very different environment to suddenly be in. I think we expect too much of babies and toddlers, thinking they'll be ok with being left with complete strangers.

What have nursery done to help him settle? I would be asking them to allow him to take something from home into nursery like a toy or special blanket. Or maybe borrow a small toy from mursery to take back next time so he knows he is going back again.

I would suggest a scarf or something that smells of you/yourperfume to keep in his bag and get out when he is struggling (may also help him nap). I would make a photo book of family members/pets to keep at nursery so staff can look at it together when he starts to wobble in the afternoon. His Key Person could also pop in and do a home visit on her way home and say hi. He needs to feel safe and know that you are coming back for hiin and that you are caring for him together at home and at nursery. All these little strategies can help with permanence and understanding. These are reasonable adjustments that nursery can be making to help.

Absolutely surprised. And surprised others have experienced it.

The whole point of the success of nurseries is that they have regular routines, a team and children are naturally inquisitive and stimulated by what's going on around them. (other children/ staff/ activities/ toys/ learning skills)

And all child carers know about distraction and engagement.

All three of mine went to nursery full-time - the only person who experienced separation anxiety was me.

One consideration might be that your child is only there 2 days a week (a nursery minimum, because it's harder to settle 2-days-a-week babies into routines that the other children are more familiar with. And sometimes impossible with 1-day-a-week.

Having said that - if your nursery stipulates 2-days-a-week - then the onus is on them to make sure your child feels settled and integrated.

I'd ask them why they think your child is not settling well in their environment. Because it is their responsibility to provide the best individual care for your child.

And posssibly also ask about their daily routine - so you can incorporate elements into your daily routines - such as same snacks and same snack time, lunch at same time, reading story at same time, etc. Just to make it more familiar and expected for DC.

I have a childminder with my second child. She had had her own children, is older but not too old and honestly, she’s a godsend. She doesn’t send them home for any little thing, not even a runny nose. She understands each child has their own pattern with bowel movements and understands parents need to work. She will let you know if they need their Mum but other than that, she gets on with it.

I’ve recently been looking on a job website out of curiosity and noticed a few Level 3 Childcare positions at Minimum wage and I was shocked. I thought they would be on a slightly better wage, which led me to be thankful I’m not using a nursery. I can’t imagine doing my best work, looking after kids, even ones who cry a lot and be on low pay.

Can they be bothered?! This was my thought. Nurseries do tend to send them home for any little thing and it’s frustrating. He might do better in a smaller setting.

This is hideous for you op. But to all the people saying it’s time to start looking at a new setting no no no! It took our two yr old three months to stop crying bouts in the day; he is just sensitive. And your little one is so so young, I’d say the crying is completely normal for some children that age - it must be terrifying being without your parents at that age. I don’t think a nursery would call unless the child is really distraught. It’s upsetting and annoying but I think you will have to just grin and bear until it gets better (and I promise you it will). In the meantime your child needs a secure attachment to their key person. What are they like? Perhaps chat with them and they may be able to suggest something?