Parents and play date politics (Title edited by MNHQ at request of OP)

[Okeydokedeva]

Got a strong willed, sweet but shy 4yr old ds. He can make some wonderful spontaneous friendships but struggles in large groups. He has a good friend at nursery and she and he has a lovely friendship. Every day he tells me stories and dreams about her. His little face melts.

the mum of the girl is heavily pregnant. She is local and has lots of friends I think. We don’t have much in common beyond the kids. We organised a play date at mine and it was clear to all of us how well they got on. Since then she has made lots of excuses and I feel a bit of a nag/Wally. Eventually she messaged me saying I was ‘overwhelming’ and that she had said she was pregnant and not making plans. I’ve tried to explain to my boy that his friends mum is tired etc. he does keep asking. It sucks. I feel really sad and ashamed. I feel like I am no good at this making friends with strangers thing. But most of all I feel so sad for him as this is his fave friend by far and it’s been going on three months now like this.

any advice????

This is what I was going to say. Maybe there's an element of cultural clash but it's sounds more like a personality clash. I'm an introvert. I found play dates exhausting. We did them because my children loved them but I had to pace myself!
You haven't messed things up for your son. He can still be great friends with this little girl.

I think depending on where you live and socialise with in England it can be easy or a minefield.

Eg I often see groups of eg Eastern European/Polish mothers out with their DC and no English mums. I understand and speak a tiny bit of Polish from having Polish friends, so can sometimes talk to them.

SIL has had her second DC last night October and mostly does music and other classes with him but found one set of mums from one group was really unfriendly (don’t think NCT) and she’s in Hackney where it’s very multicultural. Her job before was very full on and she often worked some evenings so though she did to do school runs sometimes she missed them and didn’t make or made tentative friendships there.

I actually got chatting to a lovely Ukrainian woman and her child last winter and chatted to her a bit on WhatsApp when I took DNephew to the playground in Hackney, the only reason I’ve not stayed in touch was because I don’t live there or nearby and I also don’t have DC. I got the feeling from her though that some English mums are a bit unfriendly, she didn’t openly state this but alluded to it. So I do think English people can be a bit, aloof maybe, sometimes. Totally depends on the person though, my 2 ex NDN’s were Scottish and German mums and they were very friendly and outgoing with other mums and kids who were from all over including England!

Crush suggests a romantic attachment which isn't appropriate for four year olds. Just say he gets on well with her and enjoys playing with her.
I think his mother is worried about how intense the friendship seems to be . It would be much better if you could encourage him to play with other children too. At four it's not a good idea for a child he too reliant on one friend as small children are fickle and can change who their best friend is every week.
I would invite other friends around for play dates too and try and encourage a wider friendship group?

People harping on about using the words "mutual crush" meaning that the OP is sexualising young children, and not understanding the cultural difference once it had been explained - that's your problem, not the OP's.

Totally. And I say that as an Irish person who chooses to live in London, and often meets people who have also chosen to live here, and then spend their lives moaning about England and English people. It is just rude, like inviting yourself into someone's house, insisting on staying, and then badmouthing them while eating their food.

I think you are confusing your child’s needs and your own. Your son gets to see this girl at nursery. He doesn’t really need extra play dates. I’m sure it would be nice but it’s not going to do him any harm. For context I don’t think any child in my children’s nursery years did play dates unless their mums were particular friends.
She also gave you a no and you tried to cajole her into it still. That is going to annoying.
Why not join a club or activity where you can make friends in a more natural way?

You might be making too much of this friendship between the two children and perhaps came across much too strong, making her feel stifled. Bear in mind the other Mum is pregnant and may have reacted in a stronger way than she would normally have done.

On the other hand it could just be that they have a wide circle of friends with children, and she just doesn't want to add more playdates into the equation - maybe she feels she has more than enough to cope with for the forseeable future, so cut her some slack. I'm sure you have lots of other friends with children, and at his age he's going to be making a lot more friends in future. Just explain to him that his friend's mummy is very busy with other things at the moment, and look for other things to do that he enjoys.

It’s not a crush that’s completely inappropriate.

It’s a little friend from nursery, but her mum is pregnant and busy so you need to leave them alone. So he needs to learn to make some other friends too who might be free for play dates. Try taking him to some things at the weekends etc away from nursery, my local library for example does an hours free fun session on a Saturday so kids can make new friends.

It could also be a contributing factor to why the other child's mum hasn't been keen for playdates. If someone started talking about their child and my child having 'crushes' on each other, my initial reaction would be to not rush into playdates either. An explanation of the cultural difference leading to the use of the phrase would help, but unless that's taken place, I think a lot of people would be hesitant, particularly if there were repeated, frequent efforts to arrange contacts.

So stick to the friends you do get on with and meet up with them. The kids might start getting on better.

I'm not English but I find many of the comments racist badly disguised as a culture clash. Imagine if you substituted Black, Asian, Hispanic for English.

OP it might be worth asking MN to amend the title to "children wanting play dates but other parent not wanting it" or something, remove crush, to stop new posters focusing on just that word.

If it makes you feel better re the word crush I live in the Netherlands and kept using the word "horny" instead of "yellow" (they sound the same). Way worse.

One other thing that might be making it difficult (in addition to cultural differences) is that not everyone moves around a lot - if someone has stayed in the area they grew up in they might have a network of friends they grew up with or family etc etc and just not have the time for new friendships or just not have the same incentives as someone who has moved from elsewhere. This isn't a uniquely English thing - I found the same and I know other people who moved to other countries/areas who had difficulties too. Eventually I did get a tight network of friends but it takes time.

@Okeydokedeva I'd chalk this one up to experience. There'll be other mums you can make connections with, and your son can still spend lots of time with his friend other than on playdates.

Don't let this make you stop trying to make friends, maybe just adapt your approach a bit more to the culture of the place you're in. I'm up in Scotland and we talk to everyone at drop-off and pick-ups, invite relative strangers to parties, have long chats with people we've met at bus-stops, etc, but I know that's not how things work in other areas - it's not about changing who you are, but changing how you approach these things.

If you're keen for more playdate friendships, you might find like-minded mums through groups or clubs geared towards your son's interests. That would also be a way for him to make friends outside of education or childcare settings.

You'll meet many parents along the course of nursery and school....some will be friendly and engaging, others not so.
Your child being automatically close friends with a child doesn't guarantee you will have the same with the parents.Sometimes it's best just to let them keep the friendships going at school or nursery only, explain that to them and be encouraging and positive.
My daughter has had a best friend at school this year.Myself and the mum will make friendly small talk but that's where it ends really...we are very different, but we love their little friendship.It just won't extend further to days out together etc, as for that to happen the parents also have to 'click', and sometimes it just doesn't happen.

Its not really racist - different countries do communicate differently. There are huge differences between the UK and America for example. I would never generalise and say "black people do X" but I might say "Sierra Leoneans are much more likely to comment on your weight when they see you" because its true and if someone was upset that their colleague had said "long time no see. You get FAT" it might be relevant.

When my children were little, the only reason I’d politely decline play dates for them is if they said they didn’t want one with the other child. But obv it’s hard to say that to the parent, so one might give other excuses. Maybe it’s a simple as that.

That was great, really helpful for the OP. And I agree the pregnant mum having to send that text does not want to be in contact ever again as it’s too much.

When my son was school age I got number 2 at the school gates always. I am English and was living in my home town….at the time it was code for we do not like you even though we don’t know you, we will not speak to you whatever you do even if it’s nice and kind relating to the children and some mothers telling me to my face that they don’t ever have single mums as friends, I was the only one at the school, incase I was to steal their husbands 🤣🤣🤣🤣….and then never speaking to me again!

She does sound like she has been quite rude in her response but she has made herself clear that she doesn't want to be friends, so unfortunately all you can do is accept that and be civil.

There’s a brilliant anthropological book called ‘Watching the English’ which I think you’d really enjoy @Okeydokedeva. It’s a study of everyday interactions in England. A bit dated now but a veritable cheat sheet for how to make sense of all the unwritten cues.

It breaks everyday interactions down and explains how and why they work the way they do. Therefore, it helps to depersonalise the rejections not as a function of what’s wrong with you but as a situational circumstance where you’re finding ways to be yourself in a foreign culture.

For sure, the combo of motherhood and your recent disability would have changed your own self perception and how others see you. And other people can be dicks.

You have not spoilt anything for your DS. This is actually a really good opportunity to teach him we have to hold other people lightly, especially if we like them. Hard lesson to learn, but it lays a foundation for a lifetime of satisfying friendships.

I am in Scotland, in a village. I try to be friendly. I do tend to gravitate to organising playdates with the people I know pretty well who are my friends as well as my children. My daughter is 8 and she is now old enough to go to playdates and be left, which is easier as I can find the socialising with new people a bit intimidating. However, I do want to be friendly and not exclude anyone. For some people fitting in playdates with work, family, other activities and friends can feel quite pressured. I think that you post though highlights how important it is to be friendly though and not exclude people.

I think this has more to do with not recognising "heavily pregnant woman with a preschooler" may have different priorities to the OP, rather than "cold hearted, unfriendly, aloof English v the rest of the world", which it seems have become, though

@Okeydokedeva,
I am also not from the UK.

I lived in England for 15 years before I had children. I had worked here all my adult life, I was married to an English man, I had a variety of friends, English ones amongst them, and I was more than used to the English way of life, which I chose and liked.

Yet nothing prepared me for the feelings I had when my first DC was born. Suddenly I found myself having to start from scratch in an environment where once again I felt like a complete outsider. The whole baby experience and then the start of formal education were a minefield for someone not educated in the same culture. The subtleties of human interactions that I could once easily navigate on my own became a source of constant puzzlement and heartache. I suffered for myself and for my DC thinking that I was letting them down.

I internalised every single perceived rejection. The loneliness became unbearable and I developed self-loathing, lack of confidence, and crippling insecurity. My failed attempts to get close to others and develop meaningful relationships were probably due to my own clumsiness, communication differences, and a lack of internal knowledge. I felt so hurt and ashamed that I developed a bitterness towards others, assumed that no one liked me, and took everything personally; and like a self-fulfilling prophecy, as I stopped trying to get close to others, I ended up even more lonely.

If I could give myself any advice as a young foreign mum, it would be to focus on myself via personal growth, because my DC would have also benefitted from it. I wish it had occurred to me at the time to go to counselling. I feel that this is even more relevant in your case having suffered the trauma you have.

This is hard!! I wish you the very best!

I found just reading your OP quite intense/overwhelming.

Your son sees this friend so nursery and so there is no need for additional play dates.

I would typically ask once and then ask the other mum to let me know when is best for her and then leave it.

Lots of people don’t have time for lots of play dates, especially if they work, have other children, have lots of family or other play dates/friends.

Its great your son has found a friend but it’s important that he’s encouraged to play with other children too.

Leave the ball in her court now and don’t ask her again.
She is well aware that you’re happy to go on play dates so you don’t need to keep asking.

Yes this, when I read 'crush' I was thinking what? 🤔