Parents and play date politics (Title edited by MNHQ at request of OP)

[Okeydokedeva]

Got a strong willed, sweet but shy 4yr old ds. He can make some wonderful spontaneous friendships but struggles in large groups. He has a good friend at nursery and she and he has a lovely friendship. Every day he tells me stories and dreams about her. His little face melts.

the mum of the girl is heavily pregnant. She is local and has lots of friends I think. We don’t have much in common beyond the kids. We organised a play date at mine and it was clear to all of us how well they got on. Since then she has made lots of excuses and I feel a bit of a nag/Wally. Eventually she messaged me saying I was ‘overwhelming’ and that she had said she was pregnant and not making plans. I’ve tried to explain to my boy that his friends mum is tired etc. he does keep asking. It sucks. I feel really sad and ashamed. I feel like I am no good at this making friends with strangers thing. But most of all I feel so sad for him as this is his fave friend by far and it’s been going on three months now like this.

any advice????

Oh god you sound full on. If she's heavily pregnant with a preschooler her life will be pretty full on as it is - she doesn't need constant messages from you too. Pull back a bit.

I think if you have mentioned a crush, this is probably the problem. That is the bit that is sexualised language. If another parent had told me their four year old son had a crush on my four year old daughter, I would have been put off. I'd probably think that this parent and I had little in common, not least in terms of parenting approach, and would not want her talking about crushes to my four year old.

Honestly, I'd just take a step back from this. I'm sure your son is a lovely boy and if they are four they will be going to school before long and making lots of new friends. In future, I would not mention crushes, just say that your son likes whoever and would they like to come and play.

@cadburyegg no fear of that. I’ve stepped away completely as I am evidently a weird psycho. I really am genuinely surprised about this reaction to crush. It is a crush. In my culture that isn’t a weird word to use at all when two little people act like they really like each other. Lesson learned. But it remains a major issue for me this parent stranger thing. I don’t really like it at all. It makes me feel very othered as I evidently don’t get it somehow.

Friend.

You are insinuating that their FRIENDSHIP is a romance!! At 4.

1. playdates are for kids. Not for you to become the new best friend of the parents. Sometimes that does happen, actually it did with me with a few people when mine were in primary school. Not nursery age though.

2. Crush is a horrible term for innocent kids. When my oldest was around 6 a not entirely stable parent persisted with the idea that there son and my daughter were boyfriend and girlfriend and it extended to her sending him round with a balloon and present for valentine's day at least 2 years in a row and splatting all over facebook about "his girlfriend" and I really, really, REALLY disliked seeing my pre pubescent child described as anyone's girlfriend. So please take that feedback and picture how your victim's mother feels about your language

3. Back to the nursery point. They're too young for all this playdate stuff.

4. Stop playing the victim. I get that social norms are hard, but you've breached this lady's boundaries and she's heavily pregnant. She doesn't know you, she doesn't want you to take the load off. She wants you to leave her in peace.

@StMarieforme but so what??? Everyone knows that isn’t true? He isn’t serenading her …. This is so odd. His best friend at 18months said her daughter was ‘betrothed’ to him - I didn’t think she was a paedo for saying that. It was a funny reference to Shakespeare. It doesn’t mean anything. This is what I mean. I evidently don’t get it and neither does she so she is also a weirdo… or more weird because e she said that about an 18 month old?

A crush in England is where two people fancy each other, want to be more than friends. It’s sexualised language. It can be used fairly in teen years when one teen has a crush on another but it’s really weird to use it in relation to young children.

No one here knows you properly, so please don’t take the feedback to heart. Posters can only base what they say on the snapshot you’ve shared. You acknowledge that perhaps you can be a little eager, that’s okay, we all have areas we need to grow in. Really do take this as a learning opportunity and moderate how you make contact with other parents. You know now to pay attention to your responses when your child has a friend he really likes. So perhaps in those circumstances, allow the other parent to initiate play dates too. Nursery is quite young for play dates though. My YR1 daughter has them but my nursery aged son doesn’t.

By the time your son starts reception, you’ll be a pro at navigating play dates. It’s all learning, don’t be so hard on yourself.

@MummaMummaJumma thank you for your compassionate response. Lesson learned.

You've asked and we've all told you.

You don't want to hear what we're saying and are downright aggressive.

But everyone else is the problem? 🤷🏻‍♀️

Not your fault if English is your second language, but the word crush implies that your son is attracted to the girl in a sexual way, which is creepy when applied to young children. Might you have used that wording to the mum, or described them as boyfriend/girlfriend, which has a similar vibe.

Messaging repeatedly for play dates is also a bit full on. If they had already been to yours, the 'done thing' would have been to wait for a return invite. If that didn't happen, it kind of suggests that she isn't interested in continuing. A second invite, a month or two later might be OK, but if 3 invites, all of which she refused, is just badgering. In future, you need to calm down, or you risk putting people off.

@Okeydokedeva would you have used the term crush if it had been a little boy?

@Sprogonthetyne we did meet second time at playgroup on her suggestion, so it was my go to invite back.

@BaronessEllarawrosaurus Yes probably if he was as enthused. We live in a very gay friendly area.

Just to reiterate it was shorthand for the title i haven't been telling the other mum they are in love or something. Anyway I get it that I was both too keen and clumsy. Message received thanks mumsnet. I will try to be less enthusiastic with people who don’t like me or know me.

Lots of people dont do playdates. I never did playdates. Your child will be at school next year and will be able to see other children every day.

It is hard at this age. But this could be as simple as her wanting to encourage her DD to make friends with other girls rather than with boys.

They're an interesting dynamic, boy/girl friendships. But generally speaking, in primary school the parents of boys tended to befriend parents of other boys, and same with the parents of girls.

Could you also try to be more empathetic? Like, understand that it might not be all about you and that this mother is focussing on raising a nursery age child whilst being pregnant and that that is hard?

Because you've been really quite rude and unsympathetic about her and perhaps that's why people keep dropping you?

Maybe zoom out a bit?

@Okeydokedeva
It is also possible that you have done nothing at all wrong - it's just that the other mum is finding life overwhelming due to her pregnancy .

Is the nursery your child in a school nursery class ?

I dont understand the gay friendly comment if it isnt a romatised word to you why the gay comment makes no sense.

@ShinyAppleDreamingOfTheSea no. He goes on other days to his pre school nursery but he doesn’t have any friends there. I think he finds groups hard but I have seen him beautifully make a fast friend when one to one with someone at zoo/playground/seaside- one of those mums and I have been really good friends ever since and meet at least once a week so I know I and he can be worth spending time with.

I do get people saying it’s too early for play dates but I find there are actually plenty of mums who appreciate meeting up and find a village of good company. especially our single mum friends or friends who recently moved to our area and it’s a pleasure to be supportive and hang out together.

Even from birth, other mums and I would gather to chat, have really, breastfeed so I don’t see that as so strange.

Each to their own.

sometimes I do wonder if we ought to leave the uk though. I find the isolation and insularity and reluctance to be in community fairly depressing. I hope this will change once school starts.

You sound quite pushy OP, and you also sound resentful when people explain what you have done wrong.

In England people are expected to be modest and to produce a knee-jerk apology, sometimes even if they don't feel that they are in the wrong.

If you pull back and produce the knee-jerk apology then people will feel safe and be more likely to try again.

But if you push and demand and criticise others rather then seeing your own faults, then you will be pushed out.

@Okeydokedeva you asked why it was going wrong and people explained it. You’ve reacted very aggressively towards people telling this.

In the U.K. it’s weird and inappropriate to call a friendship between two preschoolers “a crush.” It would put a great many people off.

It’s also beyond what most people will ok with to invite someone three times in the face of “no thanks.” However you intend to come across, it’s being received as overwhelming and pushy.

This sort of culture clash is both understandable and frustrating. Social mores, different acceptable terms, it’s all ripe for misunderstandings. Listen to what she has said, step back, and let your little boy see his friend just at nursery. He’ll be ok, lots of children don’t have play dates at this age.

@RoundWeGoAgain2 ok will try to adopt that strategy.

Why do you apologise if you haven’t done anything wrong though?

In my culture (Slavic) you apologise when you genuinely feel you are in the wrong. that way it actually counts for something.

In this case I see I am in the wrong and anyway I did already apologise and say it was not my intention to distress her at a tricky time etc etc - because it wasn’t.

I now understand that my enthusiasm was seen as pressurising and unkind and weird.

So I won’t do that again. Or at least I will save it for people who know who I am and that I am a good, generous and loving person and won’t misinterpret me as a creep.

Where are you from OP? I’m British living in France, and it’s very normal for young children here to be described as boyfriend / girlfriend (amoureux / amoureuse ) no one seems to bat an eyelid. I find it cringy personally because I am British.

At that age, I had play dates based on which parents I got on with; not kids friend choices.

Please don’t use sexualised words to describe the feelings of children. It’s not appropriate.