Parents and play date politics (Title edited by MNHQ at request of OP)

[Okeydokedeva]

Got a strong willed, sweet but shy 4yr old ds. He can make some wonderful spontaneous friendships but struggles in large groups. He has a good friend at nursery and she and he has a lovely friendship. Every day he tells me stories and dreams about her. His little face melts.

the mum of the girl is heavily pregnant. She is local and has lots of friends I think. We don’t have much in common beyond the kids. We organised a play date at mine and it was clear to all of us how well they got on. Since then she has made lots of excuses and I feel a bit of a nag/Wally. Eventually she messaged me saying I was ‘overwhelming’ and that she had said she was pregnant and not making plans. I’ve tried to explain to my boy that his friends mum is tired etc. he does keep asking. It sucks. I feel really sad and ashamed. I feel like I am no good at this making friends with strangers thing. But most of all I feel so sad for him as this is his fave friend by far and it’s been going on three months now like this.

any advice????

OP I’m sorry to hear you’ve been through a difficult time. At 4 presumably your child will be starting school soon? I’ve found that at nursery the parents don’t tend to do play dates or have much to do with each other outside of nursery. At school this changes as they start to form strong friendships. I am now friends the parents of both of my daughters ‘best friends’. There is much more opportunity for chatting while stood in the playground with all the kids going in at the same time than there is at a nursery drop off. My advice is to chat a little, be friendly but let your child form their own friendships over the first few months before approaching the parents for play dates etc

@JustABitOfUncertainty thank you for sharing this. It sounds like it was really difficult and your post has been a useful reminder to me to think about these issues.

I am British, live in London, have 3 kids. The youngest is 5 and in reception. Diverse school, with parents from all over the place. But I have never really considered this perspective before until @JustABitOfUncertainty raised it in their post. I am also a class rep for reception class, so spend quite a bit of time interacting with other parents/carers, so I will now be more mindful.

Op, I would not be offended by use of the word "crush" in this context. I wouldn't use it myself and would consider it a bit odd, but I would just shrug. It is quite likely that the other parents is simply busy and knackered and not currently as invested in arranging play dates as you are. She probably thinks nursery is enough for her kid.

None of my kids really did playdates in the way you discuss until they started school. They went to parties and got to hang out with other kids, went to nursery too etc, but we just had v little time beyond this and I thought their social lives were fine. So it could just be that.

Your sons old enough to know & have it enforced that not everybody is available at every time for play dates & B) you'd call it 'friends/best friends' if 2 preschoolers are obsessed with each other not crushes or anything & as the mother of a daughter id distance myself & kids from any boys/boys mum who uses any sort of sexual or 'moral boosting' terms about their son (charmer/popular with girls/heartbreaker/attractive) ect. Because these have very negative connotions to girls raised in the 90's & beyond

OP you're going to have to develop much thicker skin or you're going to literally drive yourself and worse your child absolutely insane over the next few years.

Keep perspective on what you can and cannot control. You've asked this mum for another playdate and she's very clearly said no. There could be any number of reasons for this. You need to just accept it, help your child accept it and move on.

When my dd was in preschool there was one girl in particular that she loved and was obsessed with. They obviously adored each other. Her mum barely said a word to me. She refused any requests for a playdate and very bluntly turned down an invitation to my dd's birthday party. It was such a shame that for whatever reason mum didn't want to nurture their friendship but I didn't cry about it or mollycoddle my child about it. I pointed out that she had lots of friends at preschool (which she did) and that most of them came to her party and we both shrugged it off. I explained very factually and neutrally to her that it was mum who's saying no to playdates not the child and they continued to play nicely together until they went to different primary schools. Both girls are in Y1 now. Incidentally we bumped into them a couple of weeks ago in the supermarket. My daughter didn't even recognise this old friend and didn't seem to have many memories of her when I told her who it was.

I'm afraid it only gets worse when they start school. The mums seem to get more cliquey. It can be frustrating but I can tell you that the saving grace is the older kids get the more independent they get with making friends. They will play with who they want to play with whether their parents like each other or not and it's easier to drop and go for playdates so parents become more open to playdates with parents they don't know as well.

It's really not worth stressing over OP lead by example and teach your kid to hold their head up high and refrain from making drama where there is none

Because that is very rude way to address things according to my upbringing. It is not about pretending to be nice, it is a question of ‘not’ being rude in your interactions. I think that is changing but depending on your age it is a particular type of upbringing that has cultural references.

This is not the first time your son has found someone he likes to play with, nor will it be the last!
OP don't think about it too much because you will find as your son gets older, there will be times where he will not get what he wants.Don't make a big deal of it in front of him.

I think you are sexualising it, not the OP.

This has been an interesting thread, I guess English people often don't say what they mean but we're all conditioned to read between the lines.

Anyway, don't take it personally op. My Dd is the same age and is best friends with a little boy at nursery. I don't even know what he looks like! As others have said, you will get much more opportunity to meet people whe he starts school. It is a shame really, I do wish it was more friendly and sociable at preschool.

Agree. I'm not English either, and some comments wouldn't have been left standing.

When I lived in England, communication was a learning curve for all the reasons explained by PP, and sometimes a minefield. But I decided to move there and make a life. It's important to try and understand cultural norms. Definitely also recommend Watching the English. It helped me.

You are not a weird psycho, you are just ego centric. I say this because you are still not seeing it from the other mother's POV and using terms like weird psycho is too far down the spectrum that posters are trying to explain to you about. You have overstepped a bit, that's all.

You need to put yourself in the other mother's position. You might be getting on her last nerve but you are still making it about you and feeling sorry for yourself. You have no idea WTF else this woman has going on. You are not her victim.

Step back and let things develop organically.

I cannot believe the number of people who feel they can scold OP for using "sexualised" language.

A crush is often not sexual, far from it - in the context of the OP it can mean infatuation, devotion, any kind of close attachment that takes up headspace. It is perfectly obvious from the OP that there is no suggestion of anything sexual going on.

Why are so many of you in the mood for a pile-on? Have you remembered that OP is not EFL and is currently struggling to feel properly integrated as a relatively new mum? Jeez!😩

Everyones obsessing over the use of the word crush and ignoring that fact that it is extremely, ridiculously common that people have always noticed things like this and said boyfriend and girlfriend about 2 little kids who seem to be very keen on each other.

Umm...no??! I have never seen or heard anyone describe opposite-sex friendships in young kids as boyfriend and girlfriend. It's a tacky, outdated concept that was probably ok in the 90s and now only really used by grandparents or older relatives to tease kids. Would never expect anyone in their 30s or 40s to be saying this to children.

A crush is often not sexual, far from it - in the context of the OP it can mean infatuation, devotion, any kind of close attachment that takes up headspace. It is perfectly obvious from the OP that there is no suggestion of anything sexual going on.

It's still not common language to use about very young children.

Maybe, but do you ever give any allowances for people for whom English is not their first language?

Are people scolding the op for using the term crush? Crush is inappropriate for kids of this age. Crush is used to describe intense feelings of love and attraction in teens and young adults.

I think posters are trying to point out to OP that if she used it to the mother of the other child, it might be partly responsible for the lack of response.

Feels mean? You need respect their needs/ boundaries. She is pregnant. I am not English and I find use of crush weird.

I'm one of these people. So, honestly, from someone who has lived in England that long and must be at least somewhat aware of nuance in language? I'd bear it in mind, but it would still surprise me.

In regards to the original post, it seems extremely unreasonable to chase a heavily pregnant mother of a small child to reciprocate a playdate. This has absolutely nothing to do with culture, ethnicity or language. It's sheer common sense.

The family might be dealing with a lot of unfinished tasks before the baby arrives. The mum might have health issues or scares which lots of women have in the final trimester. She still has to do the school run for the older kid and most likely lots of household stuff as well. Play dates at this age are tedious and time-consuming and a parent needs to be present all the time as well. Not really surprised the other mum has drawn a boundary.

Invert much appreciate this post. I have just had a counselling session and we spoke a lot about this. I used to be proud of who I am, a free thinker, a child of the globe, a British-ish woman. But having a ds has completely shifted the world on its axis. Yes there was a long time conceiving him and the covid and then the injury but more frightening has been the realisation that I don’t have a sense of belonging here, that for him I have to learn all over again and spend time with people who don’t like me or understand where I am coming from. Just the range of views here confirms this and is really destabilising. So thank you for understanding and for all the other kind responses.

OP another way to look at this is to look at it as an opportunity to teach your son about boundaries. Is he definitely respecting this little girl's boundaries? Is the friendship definitely mutual? If there's any doubt about this then it's the perfect opportunity to teach him that contact with girls (or boys for that matter) has to be reciprocated and that no means no.

You can also strengthen this message by accepting that no means no yourself. What would you rather him learn from you? That it's unfair if someone you like doesn't like you back and that you're entitled to contact with them? That you should hassle them for not wanting to be their friend? Or that you should respect people's boundaries?

I have been in the same position as the mum you have been messaging. In this instance the requests for playdates really overwhelmed me and the mum would send me voicenotes of her kid asking to see mine. My kid didn't actually want to meet up with the other kid outside of nursery. The constant requests were too much. The other mum is not obliged to agree to playdates to keep you and your child happy. I think space is also needed given how pregnant she is. Just back off for a while and maybe things will develop more organically when they are older.

Same here. It has not offended my culture in any way. It helps me feel home in both my original country and country I decided to make home.

Seems like you have been a bit forceful with this mum and she has backed off. But it's not necessarily your fault. But there's nothing you can do about it now except don't ask this Mum for a playdate again.

Don't worry op some mums just can't be bothered with play dates. Four years old is very young he will see his friends at nursery and school that's fine. They often flit from person to person so but if the other mum won't meet up then there's nothing else you can do your son will be fine as long as his mixing with kids his own age we can't always see the people we want

Your post is horrible. You're accusing the OP of bombarding, harassing and trying to force meetings. What is wrong with you that you would post like that?

OP has asked and been told what the problem is, and far more kindly. She doesn't need you putting the boot in.

====================

OP... go a little more slowly. I get that when our children are enthused by something we grab the baton and go but other people need to be on board with that and they aren't always at the same speed. Don't write this women off but the next time you see her, ask after her and if there's anything you can do to lighten her load. If not then at least you have asked, shown friendship and she can pick that up when she's able.

As you've been told, the word 'crush' has very definite connotations that aren't appropriate for young children and if that word was mentioned then, if you get the opportunity when you see this woman, just say what you have here - that you're not English and the culture is a bit of a mystery. That's honest and non-threatening.

You know how to make friends, you have them already. Just go a bit slower with new ones and let them get to know you. Also - make sure there is a balance, with no one person pulling or pushing more than the other. That's my advice.

Best wishes