Parents and play date politics (Title edited by MNHQ at request of OP)

[Okeydokedeva]

Got a strong willed, sweet but shy 4yr old ds. He can make some wonderful spontaneous friendships but struggles in large groups. He has a good friend at nursery and she and he has a lovely friendship. Every day he tells me stories and dreams about her. His little face melts.

the mum of the girl is heavily pregnant. She is local and has lots of friends I think. We don’t have much in common beyond the kids. We organised a play date at mine and it was clear to all of us how well they got on. Since then she has made lots of excuses and I feel a bit of a nag/Wally. Eventually she messaged me saying I was ‘overwhelming’ and that she had said she was pregnant and not making plans. I’ve tried to explain to my boy that his friends mum is tired etc. he does keep asking. It sucks. I feel really sad and ashamed. I feel like I am no good at this making friends with strangers thing. But most of all I feel so sad for him as this is his fave friend by far and it’s been going on three months now like this.

any advice????

I think people are obsessed with the use of the word ‘crush’, even after OP has stated that English isn’t her first language. So what if it is ‘inappropriate’? It is intentions that matter and OP clearly means her son likes the girl a lot, not in a sexual way. If you can’t get over the wrong word, maybe you have sexual issues you need to be investigating….

I think most of us when we meet someone from another culture try to look through the language and the odd cultural error and meet in the middle. Equally, though, OP, I think you need to make more effort into learning the little social and etiquette rules that go with living in England.

I think people are quite stand off ish here compared to most cultures. On the other hand, once you have made a friend, people are quite loyal and supportive, but I think the play date age is tricky as so many already have their networks and aren’t welcoming to new people.

@Ricebaffled hmmm yeah maybe.

Also, you could always spend your time doing something more useful than getting offended on behalf of someone you don't know on the internet for something they might not be offended by 🤷‍♀️

You seemed determined to paint English cultural norms in a negative light. I don't think that's going to be particularly conducive to making friends with English people.

It's already been explained to you multiple times. Most English people find bluntness rude and unpleasant, so we find ways to avoid being blunt with other people so that we can avoid hurting other people's feelings. It's that simple.

Sorry if this has already been mentioned (see, I'm doing it too!) But "Watching the English: the hidden rules of English Behaviour " by Kate Fox is spot on for this and makes a fascinating and compelling read.

Yeah this I spot on. I have a slavic co worker who is lovely but very very blunt and when she first started not many people liked her as they thought she was really rude. She would just come out with whatever thought was in her head. Once things settled, and they got to know her people realised it's just her manner, its a just different way of relating to people and its fine, and we all get on great now. But it was a bit of a bumpy start for this exact reason.

some one should write a book about it to demystify the English for the rest of us

They have! read "watching the English" by Kate Fox. I read it, am a Brit, and found myself laughing out loud at her observations as they were so true

Apologies- its clearly been mentioned before but its such a great book

OP, I am from the same cultural background as you, and sorry but you sound nuts. It’s not the culture - you are argumentative on this thread, using completely inappropriate language for 4year olds, and sound pushy towards the other family. Please stop blaming the culture for it - my friends and family with kids back home DO NOT behave like you.

I also wonder, if you are this pushy, whether your DS’s friendship with the girl is as two sided as you presented, or whether your DS has been similarly over the top, pushy, in your face intense with this girl, the girl is not enjoying it, and her Mum is rightly protecting her.

It's not that you CAN'T ask, it's just people often don't tend to. That's why I liked the book, it was describing behaviour I noticed and take part in without thinking about. I think what happens is you start making small talk with someone, and as part of the small talk you start dancing around to find out a bit more about the other person without asking directly eg "Did you come far to get here?" to get an idea of where they live. It's kind of ridiculous but I do think there is a culture of feeling a bit put upon when you meet someone and there is an onslaught of direct questions "what's your name? Where do you live? What do you do for a living?" In the book it explains how there is an unspoken reciprocal agreement for the other person to drop clues in the conversation that eventually will lead to you uncovering the information. It really isnt something anyone thinks about particularly deeply, it's just kind of what happens.

Your use of the word 'crush' is 🤮 and it sounds like you've just been a bit overbearing with it all. Back off and give the other mum some space.

Four year old really don't need 'playdates'.

OP I don't think you need to be so hard on yourself. You sound friendly and sociable and are happy to put yourself out there to make friends for you and your son and that's great. It's just that not everyone is like that and will not want to get so involved.

I'm very antisocial, struggle to make friends and need my own space. When my kids were little I forced myself to interact with the other mums at school and went on a few play dates (which really are my worse nightmare!) for the sake of my kids. When I was pregnant with my third I was exhausted, and I just wanted to hide away and rest whenever I could, definitely not go on play dates with mums who I personally found too full on. Nothing against them as people, they were lovely, just not my kind of people.

So it could be that it's not you, it's her. And there's nothing wrong with either of you. You don't need to change necessarily, just keep being yourself but accept you won't be for everyone.

You are OK, Okeydokedeva. I know you didn't mean anything sexual by the word, 'crush' I looked up the dictionary definition and there are many but this is the one I think people were concerned about: "INFORMAL a brief but intense infatuation for someone, especially someone unattainable, eg:
"she did have a crush on Dr Russell" "

Don't worry about it, you won't use the word in that way again and you didn't mean it that way - we all realise that.

The children are friends. Small children do go on and on about their special friends and always want to see them.

However, the other child's mother finds it all a bit much at the moment. Gone are the days when we could drop our child off at a friend's house for an afternoon, then go home and put our feet up, or visa versa. Now parents have to visit with other parents while their kids play. I'm sure that can be a pain; not everyone likes sitting in someone else's house, they'd rather be at home doing their own thing or even having a nap. The mother will feel even more that way when she has a new baby.

Just leave it, Okeydoke. Your little one will make other friends, you'll see, so will the other child and so will you. This situation will not last forever, or even for long. Please try not to take it so personally or seriously. Child-politics can be difficult to navigate, try to be cool and casual about it. I've no doubt you have fun with your son so concentrate on that.

I wish you all the very best. Take care of yourself.

This. I'm English and very happy with that. I have met many Skavic people in my life. You can be you, I will be me. I don't expect you to change your behaviour to suit me so please do not expect me to 'be more Slavic'. You are Slavic, your husband is autistic. That's quite a combination when you are seeking English friendships.

as I say, with other mum friends there is no issue - they welcome the chat and are also making suggestions to meet. We have a laugh etc but their kids and mind don’t get on so well. As soon as I find a friend he loves, boom, somehow I ruin it for him. Feel terrible.

I think this points to you bring too intense and maybe suggesting far too many play dates. Also never use the word “crush” for children to other parents — it sexualises them which people will see as creepy.
Slow down, it didn’t matter if your child doesn’t get on well with other children enough to be lifelong best friends with them. At his age they still learning to be sociable and playing in the park, at soft play etc…. Is all he needs.

Exactly, I started off reading this prepared to give an example and some advice but what’s the point? No wonder she doesn’t want to meet up with you OP if you are so disdainful of the English, and I’m assuming the other Mum is English based on what you’ve said about her.

No heavily pregnant woman wants to meet up for play dates with boisterous 4 year olds ,surely even you can see that!?

I think “I find you overwhelming” is pretty blunt actually. I would have thought you’d appreciate it.

A preschooler may pester but you don't have to react. After suggesting it a few times and getting fobbed off you stop asking. The dc see each other at nursery so don't need extra play dates.

It sounds like you are foreign and disabled so I wouldn't feel too bad about yourself. It's probably not you. It sounds like prejudice to me. Some people are ignorant.

I wouldn't want to go round someone's house so the kids could play unless they were someone I wanted to be friends with. At 4 I did the odd play date where a nursery child came to us but it's rare. My dc mainly met friends in the park where parents can ignore each other as much or as little as they want.

Suggest a park meet up the next time he wants to see a friend.

The term “Crush” implies sexual attraction.

You could say they seem to have some kind of connection. Connection probably better than crush.

DS seemed to have some kind of connection with a girl when they were both 2, but they grew apart and went to different schools, but are now back at the same school, in different years, and I do sometimes wonder if they will at some point make friends again. They look at each other a lot. But DS has a crush (now a permissible word, I think, as a teen!) on a different girl.

At 4 years, what the parent wants is going to determine the friendship - when they get older they will decide for themselves if they have been taught how to handle relationships and friendships. If the parent here is not keen i would let it go completely, let the two children be friends at nursery, be open to invitations, but encourage lots of play dates with other kids, and give DS lots of opportunity to play with other kids.

Organising things with other parents is similar to making friends - or any sort of relationship - if someone is absolutely not interested, they aren't interested, simple as that. Waste of your time to try to work out why or to try to change things. I remember being taught that to do with marketing events too... if someone isn't interested, just be polite and walk away! Plenty of people will be interested.

OP I don’t think there’s anything wrong or sexual about the word crush. People here are absolutely bonkers and it’s more a reflection of how their minds work than yours.

My son was forever popular at nursery with young girls wanting him to be their boyfriend. There was nothing sexual involved other than rejecting kisses. It’s madness to apply adult understanding and emotion onto children playing. I’d have said crush was very much more a childhood thing as it implies an innocence.

My youngest has had the same crush since nursery and we try to dissuade him but he is sure he loves this girl and she has the same intense response. They’ve planned their wedding and have even named their kids! (They’re 7!) we laugh it off as children playing at the norms they see around them much the same as we all did at that age too. Stay out of the friendship and let nature decide whether it continues or fizzles out.

As for the mum, she’s probably harassed with late pregnancy and a young child. I think her response was rude but you may have been too full on too. Kindness wouldn’t have hurt her. Step back, allow the friendship in nursery to develop and let your son make other more receptive friends out of nursery. They don’t need regular play dates at this age anyway.

it’s also remembering that mumsnet is a weird microcosm of people pretending they’d behave a certain way or say certain things to others that they wouldn’t dream of in real life. It’s like the school/nursery gates amplified here.

Just from an individual’s perspective rather than entire races, I am an introvert and found play dates very draining. If I had some spare time, I would vastly prefer to be alone and try to regain some energy. Someone popping around to my house without notice fills me with absolute horror.
I have friends I genuinely like but I don’t want to see them all the time. I need alone time to reenergise. I found being a mum of toddlers exceptionally difficult as they are very needy and make a lot of noise. I honestly could not face more people during those days.
It might not be an English thing. She might be an introvert, you are likely an extrovert. We introverts do find extroverts overwhelming sometimes.

It is, isn't it?

If you hate English attitudes so much, sounds like it’s time to move.

I think some of the helpful posts here decoding the British way are hilarious, and very true. It works both ways - I am British and live outside Britain - the longer I live where I am, the more differences in culture I see!

Oh come on this is incredibly pushy surely you must see that ?
Unfortunately I think this charming and sociable little girl's Mum may be inundated with play dates invites.

@Okeydokedeva don't worry about the crush thing. A friend of mine who is not English used the word "creepy" once, convinced that it meant "in love"...

Crush is more usually used for tween and up and it implies more romantic love than sex (in my social group anyway!) but it is going to be obvious what you mean to most people, especially if they know you aren't English.

All parents are different, in the UK and everywhere else, some will do playdates with parents they don't have much in common with if the kids want it (I did) some won't.