Parents and play date politics (Title edited by MNHQ at request of OP)

[Okeydokedeva]

Got a strong willed, sweet but shy 4yr old ds. He can make some wonderful spontaneous friendships but struggles in large groups. He has a good friend at nursery and she and he has a lovely friendship. Every day he tells me stories and dreams about her. His little face melts.

the mum of the girl is heavily pregnant. She is local and has lots of friends I think. We don’t have much in common beyond the kids. We organised a play date at mine and it was clear to all of us how well they got on. Since then she has made lots of excuses and I feel a bit of a nag/Wally. Eventually she messaged me saying I was ‘overwhelming’ and that she had said she was pregnant and not making plans. I’ve tried to explain to my boy that his friends mum is tired etc. he does keep asking. It sucks. I feel really sad and ashamed. I feel like I am no good at this making friends with strangers thing. But most of all I feel so sad for him as this is his fave friend by far and it’s been going on three months now like this.

any advice????

Try Watching the English. I am English and spent the whole book going yeah, that is what I do, oh yes that is exactly how it works. I particularly liked the chapter on meeting new people and the dance you have to do around finding out their name, what they do for a living etc because you can't ask directly and they won't tell you directly.

Just find mums who like you OP, better to do that at this stage than let your kid choose. In my experience, if you get on with the parent, the rest like playdates etc, will happen naturally. Suggesting the dads to meet up was a step too far, I am not British either and I think it’s too much. I think possibly you are trying to find your circle of friends but this particular person is not it.
Someone above has posted (with good intentions) that Slavic people are blunt, etc, but do people realise that you are speaking a different language and expressing something retranslated from your language may sound too direct due to lack of nuanse, vocabulary, etc pertinent to a native speaker? Only bilingual people could possibly understand this but the mighty Brits sadly speak just one language (mostly), although they are very quick to judge others who do.
Move on, you will find your tribe, there’s nothing wrong with you as such.

A crush means your son likes the girl in a sexual way or boyfriend and girlfriend. If you have used that word with the other mum she probably didn’t like it. Also sending the same message once a twice every two weeks is too much. If you get no response I would only text once more time to check they got the message otherwise it will come across as overwhelming . , if the answer is no each time I would try once a month otherwise yes it is too overwhelming

Their just babies not even 60 months.
Just leave it and he will play at school with friends.
I dont get all this school gate mum stuff play dates etc.
The kids go to school not the parents.

Kindly, the other mum may just not be bothered with play dates. She has to sit and make small talk with you, her child may not be badgering for a play date, she may have more than enough friends, feels you and her don’t have anything in common or is genuinely just busy and can’t be bothered. I did way less play dates with my 2nd and 3rd child as by then I had a group of genuine mum friends and didn’t want to need to have to go to a strangers house and make effort. Her child may like yours but not be begging for play dates so she just doesn’t have much incentive. It’s going to certainly be a lot to do with her and not that much with you, could be you’re not hugely her cup of tea or she was offended by the word crush but equally it could be a lot of her own circumstances. So don’t beat yourself up. For what it’s worth I love my blunt talking Eastern European friends, they make me laugh so much and I am as English as they come (in terms of the stereotypes for not saying what I mean) as they come. I frequently say “it would be so lovely to catch up” and what I mean is “you’re ok but I do not want to set a date or put myself out to meet you”.

An excuse or 2 means don’t ask again unless she approaches you.

I feel bad for you that you've had this response, you were trying to be friendly and to help your kid to make friends.
I agree English people are very slow to make proper friends and quite nervous about a once in a while type friendship developing into something more frequent.

I am myself English although also Jewish, and my husband is from another country so I can see it in myself but also appreciate the other side.

Sometimes I feel like we are being too friendly or pushing too hard for a friendship and sometimes I feel I'm withdrawing from someone who is being more approachable, and I don't really know why. That's the English side I think!

You were trying to help your kid out, don't feel bad. But I'm sure they spend lots of time together anyway.

I have to agree with this

@RoundWeGoAgain2 has made some insightful posts. It's good she has helped you @Okeydokedeva

But I agree with those who have said the other Mum probably doesn't want to sit making small talk in someone's house.

Your ds is 4. He hasn't started school yet. Plenty of parents just aren't interested in "playdates".
My dc only started going to play with friends once they were in school and able to go on their own. I've never sat in my dcs' friends' houses making polite conversation with their parents in my life.

I haven't seen this answered beyond 'friend' yet, so wanted to add a drop into this ocean: if my child has a really good friendship with another, I'd just say they 'get on really well together'. If they're exceedingly close friends and get up to mischief, an old phrase that I still like to pull out is 'thick as thieves'. Means they're coming up with sneaky plots together. My son and his (female!) friend are like this. Often they're plotting ways to avoid one or the other having to leave a playdate!

I agree that some people will work better with your personality in England than others. I like plenty of breathing space in my week to just not have to socialise but I have some friends who are the opposite of hard work for me, I love seeing them. It takes a while though. (And funnily enough - my closest, most comfortable to be with friend is from Poland, so it's definitely possible!)

I'm Canadian. We are very laid back but also apologize for everything. Sorry about that.

You could be my friend! My ds is 13 now though.

I have no chill if I like someone. I get really excited talking to new people. Everyone has a story so I tend to love making new friends. I love getting to know what makes someone a hero in their story. 🌷

I hope you meet some Mom's soon you click with!

My two best friends are the mom's of ds's two best friends. They have gotten me through so much. I'm very lucky and I'm sure you will be too. 💝

Do you mean they really like each other like they want to date each other? Weird choice of words for 4 year old friends.

Honestly it’s not just non-English people who find the whole anti-social, lack of community thing annoying. There’s a whole bunch of English people who also find it bloody annoying and draining - the people you are maintaining friendships with are probably the ones who feel that way. The ones who avoid eye contact are of the other mentality.

I long to be somewhere where people just spend time together - especially women. Where you don’t need to book an appointment to pop round a friend’s. Where do you live? It’s slightly better up north but not drastically unfortunately.

Anyway, don’t feel too bad, kids at that age move on quick and you feel like it’s all horrible and they need friends but they don’t really. School will come soon enough. Expect the playground to be boring and unfriendly though in all likelihood.

Also like others have said, the bluntness thing really does freak us out and hurt our feelings. If you say “oh that dress doesn’t look good, the one you wore the other day looked much better”, we will go home and secretly cry.

Thank you for all these insightful replies and for taking the time.

@Devonshiregal live in the south- i did suggest that we ought to move north a while ago but I guess we are installed now with school choices out this week! As you say, just long for a more friendly and informal culture. I know my door is always open to people and they know it of me but people almost never ever pop over, it’s really sad.

one more thing, is it really true that you can’t ask someone their name or job? I’ve evidently made that mistake a million times. I thought those were normal things to begin a conversation with? I will defintely get that book @SilverSimca because I have been making all sorts of errors I can see now.

I think there's a kind of etiquette with these things that it can be difficult to read if you're from a different culture/background where people are more straightforward in their communications.

For example, if we chatted outside school/nursery, the other mum and I might say "oh it would be nice for the kids to have a playdate". I would then tend to message afterwards saying "lovely to chat today. If X would like a playdate with Y, you're very welcome to come round or drop off sometime. We're free on these dates, if any good?" I tend to offer a few dates (2 or 3), in case they can't make the first one. Then, the mum might come back and say "That would be great, let's do X date" or "Sorry, can't make those dates, but how about Y date?" If I get a different response, like "sorry can't do this dates" but no alternative date offered, then I assume the mum isn't that interested in having a playdate. And occasionally I get "Can I get back to you, life is very busy at the moment" which either means what it says or is a polite way of saying not interested. So I wouldn't message again at that point, but just leave it with them and be normal and friendly when we meet.

@Okeydokedeva I am English and I totally agree with your summation of the English! I'm your typical apologetic self-deprecating Brit, but with a big emphasis on openness and honesty, and I found it so hard to meet new mum friends at the beginning; it was all so boring doing the dance of possible friendship, with all these rules of engagement to consider. The polite nods, the mundane chats, when all I really wanted was 'let's grab a coffee and see if there's a vibe'.

I ended up becoming really good friends with two mums, both from mainland Europe, in exactly the same situation you describe. Our children liked each other at nursery, we met at pick up, chatted, arranged a play date, and boom, we had regular meet ups each week - both were so refreshing in their openness (or more often bluntness!) that we're friends for life! I think being an older mother (over 40) played a part, I'm much more open than I was when younger, but I also realised that there's something about my fellow English that exasperates me... just let loose, people!

And while I get the reaction to the word 'crush' I also got where you were coming from. It is possible for two pre schoolers to have a proper connection - my kid and her besties (one a girl, one a boy) are so happy in each others company it's just lovely to see it develop. I also think play dates are a great way to spend time with your children. Boo to the above people who poo poo the idea.

All the people above giving you a hard time sound like the kind of mums that I tried to befriend but couldn't (and I'm sure they'd say the same about me!) but you sound great and don't take everything too much to heart. You might have lost this friendship for your child but keep true to yourself (with minor modifications to accommodate some of the cultural differences) and you'll meet someone who will be your kind of person.

To give a different perspective, these social "rules" might seem convoluted and pointless, but the underlying purpose, if you like, is to allow both parties to back out or not take things forward without potentially offending or criticising the other person. It's meant to avoid the need to be blunt in a way that might cause offence. It also leaves the door open for relationships to evolve as time goes on.

You aren't horrible but you've tried to suggest this heavily pregnant woman spends her time at your house which she clearly doesn't want to do. She's tired, pregnant and probably not feeling sociable and just doesn't want to spend her time hanging out in your house with you. To be fair I wouldn't want to hang out in someone's house with them so our kids could play even without being pregnant and knackered. I'm just not sociable that way. You're also trying to manage her husband's time by suggesting he socialises with your husband- do they even know each other? During my free time I would only want to socialise with really good friends or be by myself. People are made differently and what you're suggesting is just not something she wants to do. It will get easier when they start school because kids will come and play without their parents.

The term "crush" is mostly used to describe a feeling teenagers have when they first fancy someone and it's sexual.

It's not "love" because it's an intense physical attraction that usually passed.

That's why people are saying it's inappropriate to use about a 4 year old op.

It is completely inappropriate for you to call someone mean for not wanting to socialise with you. She doesn't want to. She doesn't have to. That is all there is to it

Try not to over dramatise this.

The woman gave you some fairly blunt feedback. I know it's hard not to be offended, but it's not a huge calamity.

Some friendships come and go. It's ok. We don't all have to be best friends forever.

By the way, if English is your second language you write extremely fluently op!

It's just been lost in translation op. Don't worry about it. It doesn't mean you're a weirdo. Just stop using that word and move on.

Some families just aren't concerned about developing nursery friendships further at weekends. My children had great friends at nursery but I can only think of two occasions where I met a nursery parent and child for a playdate. The rest of the time we went out as a family or saw grandparents, cousins, my non-nursery friends and their children instead.

Of the two playdates I did, one seemed completely normal. A low-key ramble around a farm park, chatting with a coffee while our children played.

The other was a home playdate and very intense. Both parents were present and had gone to lots of effort with food and special games devised and set up for the children to play. Their son and my daughter had both talked about an imaginary game they made up and played at nursery. These parents had made and set up special 'props' to try and spark off this game at their house so they could watch ii! Thankfully the children were overwhelmed and didn't 'perform to order'. There were also jokes about the children getting married when they were older. I know only a 'joke' but creepy and unnecessary imo. Would jokes about marriage (or 'crushes'?) be made about a same-sex friendship?

I was a bit disturbed by all this and made excuses for every further invitation that family offered. Not suggesting you have gone as overboard as this. Maybe you just need to tell your son to enjoy playing with X at nursery, change the subject and do other stuff at weekends!

Maybe abuse isn't brought into the open and punished in some countries, so people naively think it doesn't exist?

Jeez I think some of the responses are harsh! I don’t think crush is too bad especially if English isn’t your first language? I’d probably just laugh about it or shrug it off. When my daughter was ant nursery she had a best friend who was a boy annd they just adored each other - the nursery staff used to joke about buying a hat for the wedding etc. And messaging someone once a fortnight three or four times isn’t too bad?

op I think going forward if you do have a successful play date at yours then leave the ball in the court of the other parent to return it. It can take months, people are busy.