Parents and play date politics (Title edited by MNHQ at request of OP)

[Okeydokedeva]

Got a strong willed, sweet but shy 4yr old ds. He can make some wonderful spontaneous friendships but struggles in large groups. He has a good friend at nursery and she and he has a lovely friendship. Every day he tells me stories and dreams about her. His little face melts.

the mum of the girl is heavily pregnant. She is local and has lots of friends I think. We don’t have much in common beyond the kids. We organised a play date at mine and it was clear to all of us how well they got on. Since then she has made lots of excuses and I feel a bit of a nag/Wally. Eventually she messaged me saying I was ‘overwhelming’ and that she had said she was pregnant and not making plans. I’ve tried to explain to my boy that his friends mum is tired etc. he does keep asking. It sucks. I feel really sad and ashamed. I feel like I am no good at this making friends with strangers thing. But most of all I feel so sad for him as this is his fave friend by far and it’s been going on three months now like this.

any advice????

How would we find that out? Is there a proper way to ask?

@RoundWeGoAgain2 The huge baby bump would give it away. Can’t always be sure with all body types but doesn’t mean it’s not observable.

I agree about the use of the word ‘crush’, this all sounds a bit obsessive.

😂😂

This reminds me of my very good German friend. I met him travelling. On one occasion he came to London to visit and when I opened the door he said, with a loving smile on his face “Ahh X, you’ve got fat” and then hugged me. Lol, always makes me laugh thinking of that.

I think she's definitely pregnant. The question is whether she is just pregnant or whether she's also really annoyed with the OP and wants her to button it and naff off. (be quiet and go away.)

@RoundWeGoAgain2 - oh that’s great- my best friends are from all over including Bonnie Scotland- and now I think on it, my sil and DH and my team for my business are the only English people I am really good friends with. So yes maybe I really do need a proper education in how to socialise going forward as my friends from India, Nigeria, Sri Lanka, Brazil, the US, across mainland Europe, Israel and Eastern Europe we just don’t have an issue with being frank and honest. It doesn’t mean we aren’t also kind, loving, tender, patient, we just always believe that honesty and integrity are more important than pretending to be nice. I see now that although it wasn’t ‘no thanks’ it was actually just a set of excuses that actually mean ‘no thanks’ and because I didn’t know that I assumed, innocently that they just had plans that day. But now I am like… ahhhhh it was a strong and firm English ‘go away’. You live and learn.

that is deeply weird about Barbie. And I hate the sound of music. I guess Mary Poppins is of the same kind of non sexual non threatening umbrella toting type right? This has been v educational.

English people can be "well rounded" and "well humoured". Be careful, Op, that you don't just assume that someone has responded to you in a certain way because they are English. Because that's obviously not the case

I think it's worth just in future getting to know someone well before being too keen.

Some people respond well to it, others not so much - that's just part of us being different and human - some people aren't going to accept you exactly as you are, for me I wouldn't try to hard for that acceptance and would just decide we aren't compatible - you do seem to want to have that acceptance to help with your sons friendships so that is where you would need to get to know them and adapt to their personality style in terms of how often to contact/enthusiasm etc.

E.g. mum 1 is a single mum who's a little lonely and loves the enthusiasm and really wants to make a friendship whilst the kids play - enthusiasm welcome.

Mum 2 has a busy hectic life, some medical issues, a full friendship group and lots of family commitments

Mum 2 may be an every other month at most play dater and feel a bit overwhelmed if asked too often - doesn't mean you've done anything wrong it's just not so compatible

A lot of it is reading between the lines when you communicate - if they don't contact first/ask you first, or ever talk about things other than keeping it light/about the kids, then I'd leave it a couple months before asking for another play date - or not at all and offer when they're older and can be without parent to spend time together.

Same with the word crush, talking about boyfriend/girlfriends etc. my boy had a good friend between 18months and 3 years and the mum would call them boyfriend and girlfriend as a joke. I wasn't massively keen as it's just not part of my mindset/culture to think of it like that. It didn't bother me enough to distance - as I'd been friends with the mum about 10 years - if it had been a new contact perhaps it would have done. Better to avoid the language unless you know the person and know that's language they use - as it won't be to everyone's taste. It isn't particularly offensive I don't think, just some parents won't want a young child referred to as a crush/boyfriend etc.

I don't think you did anything wrong - it works with other friends you have, just didn't with this one. And your son and her will still play happily at nursery, just part of life that some friends are just in school/nursery - others are outside as well.

I am sure you will make more contacts once he is in school and there will be more play dates. Keep it casual and enjoy :) bear in mind some parents don't want to get too close to other parents in case the kids fall out - and see it all as just light chit chat and casual encounters mostly rather than 'friendships' and I think you'll go fine

I think this sound right. This is also my experience.

That is very funny @RoundWeGoAgain2 glad it had a happy ending!! Exactly. She just told you the truth. Radical right!

also my DH is autistic so this really helps with frankness on both sides. He doesn’t say sorry much but he does hide a lot of what he thinks in a very confusing way. If you can’t tell your DW who can you tell??

@HAF1119 much appreciated , thank you for this. I’m going to really shift gears on the back of the useful stuff here.

N'night @Okeydokedeva and good luck. I'm off to bed now.

I agree. I'm Irish and I don't love the term "crush" for 4 year olds, and if I'm slow arranging a return playdate, I don't want to be pushed more than once. I don't think this is a Cold Unfriendly English People issue, although I can see it may be more palatable to resort to stereotypes than to think "Maybe I could have handled this differently".

Crush is weird. To me it's a bit like saying 'he fancies the pants off her' or 'he's lusting for her'. It's not appropriate terminology to use for young kids.

Also, are you certain that her DD actually enjoys being around your son? Is there any chance that your son can be annoying/overpowering or anything like that?

Ignoring people isn’t about humiliating them. It’s kind of the opposite. It’s avoiding an interaction that will be humiliating for them - like having to bluntly say no to a playdate your kid really doesn’t want to go on.

Just say your son's friend.

Maybe its because you clearly dont like the English that she doesn't want to spend time with you.
You have been deeply unpleasant about us we don't do things the same as you that doesn't make us cold rude or unpleasant.

Hi OP, glad to see from your responses that the thread has been helpful even though you had some harsh replies early on.

Very sorry to hear you've had health issues and wish you all the best.

My oldest boy is 6 and SUUUUUUPER enthusiastic about all his friends and inviting them over to play all the time. We have 1 or 2 close friends (who I get on with well) whose kids also are similar ages and like coming over to hang. Those we see here every 2 weeks or so and more than that at the playground or soft play.

Then there are a couple of kids who he plays with all the time at school, clearly his "best friends" at least for now, and he always wants to invite them over. And their mums just say no. We've had one single playdate with one of them and with the other it's maybe once or twice a year since they started school aged 4.

Those mums don't like hanging out with me, aren't especially sociable, have a close group of friends already, and both have either lots of work commitments or lots of family caring responsibilities. Their lives aren't compatible with coming round here to play often and they also just don't want to!

So it's not that "I let my son down" by not arranging weekly playdates with his besties. It's just that they're not happening, for lots of good reasons, and my DS has learnt to be ok with that. Life isn't exactly how you want it sometimes and that's ok.

I'm not sure if this is helpful but I wanted you to know (a) that what's happening with you is really normal and ok, and (b) you haven't done anything wrong, or let your boy down, or messed anything up.

Wish you all the best of luck finding close friends close by who your DS gets on with really well - I'm sure you'll find them

As a PP implies, some parents are just weird about their kids having opposite-sex friends. I suspect they're the kind of people who lean quite heavily into sexist stereotypes in general, and "your friends should be the same sex as you" is one of those.

My advice would be to back off! Your son can play with his friend at school so it's not like they won't see each other. His mum is heavily pregnant and has made clear that she has found your messaging and invites to playdates too much. Learn the lesson OP, don't get too intense and pushy about children's friendships!

I think mum/ child friendships are hard. With my original baby group friends, we stopped meeting up with the kids as they did not get on, however the mums are still good friends of mine.

When my children were old enough to make friends of their own, I didn't always want to spend time with the parents, it's easier once they're a bit older and the kids can just come for a play after school, but it's weird sitting and making polite small talk with people you wouldn't normally spend time with, just because your children get on.

Sometimes you get lucky and your children make friends with children whose parents you want to hang out with, but more often it's just a case of getting through the awkward early play dates until the children move on, or are old enough that mum doesn't have to come too.

@WoolyMammoth55 yes, thank you. It’s really helpful to know others experience this too.

@Mysticfalls personally I just prefer honesty.

You do you.

If you feel it is more kind to blank someone then that’s absolutely your right.

Personally I wouldn’t choose to do it that way. I think it’s very unkind.

And it isn’t fair to jump to the conclusion you have as they do get on really well as seen by both parents and hang out a lot together at nursery according to the team there. When he doesn’t get on with someone it’s painful so I wouldn’t want that for anyone.

I know you want to encourage friendships for him but learn from this. Don't push don't be overwhelming or it will keep happening.

Lots of people just don't want to do nursery age playdates as you are stuck entertaining the parent - at that age you tend to want to spend time with friends who have children.

As a general rule, if you invite someone to something and they brush you off or turn the invitation down, then wait for them to come back to you rather than inviting again.

It’s just another cultural difference. It’s not personal. You’ll also get blanked or at most a polite nod if you run into someone you know in a potentially embarrassing place like a doctor’s waiting room or outside the head teacher’s office at your children’s school.
English people do do honesty and frankness, but only once they trust someone. It’s just the other way around to what you’re used to. You expect frankness and use it to decide whether you can trust people. English people use other behavior to decide whether they can trust people and the frank conversations come later, and perhaps in more private settings.