Parents and play date politics (Title edited by MNHQ at request of OP)

[Okeydokedeva]

Got a strong willed, sweet but shy 4yr old ds. He can make some wonderful spontaneous friendships but struggles in large groups. He has a good friend at nursery and she and he has a lovely friendship. Every day he tells me stories and dreams about her. His little face melts.

the mum of the girl is heavily pregnant. She is local and has lots of friends I think. We don’t have much in common beyond the kids. We organised a play date at mine and it was clear to all of us how well they got on. Since then she has made lots of excuses and I feel a bit of a nag/Wally. Eventually she messaged me saying I was ‘overwhelming’ and that she had said she was pregnant and not making plans. I’ve tried to explain to my boy that his friends mum is tired etc. he does keep asking. It sucks. I feel really sad and ashamed. I feel like I am no good at this making friends with strangers thing. But most of all I feel so sad for him as this is his fave friend by far and it’s been going on three months now like this.

any advice????

If some of these comments about the English were made about people from other countries it would be considered racist.

That is a very good example of someone being very blunt! Seems to me that is all the pregnant lady did too. So not very "typically" English perhaps?

To be honest, at that stage in my life I would have thought you barmy.

The mum has a child who sees your child at nursery. That’s where they spend their time together and catch up.

The mum is heavily pregnant. And wrangling another young child. Why on earth would she want to add traipsing around to play dates to her no doubt long list when she is no doubt exhausted. Offering for her to ‘put her feet up’ at yours is odd. When your child goes somewhere you need to supervise them. She doesn’t have time or capacity, and at any rate, circling back to the fact these kids catch up routinely at nursery.

By keeping on about what was weird to begin with you have crossed a line and she has let you know. Just leave it be safe in the knowledge your kids will still be friends at nursery. You haven’t ‘blown it’ for your son. That seems hysterical and intense.

👌🏻

I really feel for you OP, this is a culture clash if ever there was one.

DH is Russian, so I’m on a Facebook group for Russian mums in London. And it’s full of this sort of thing:

”Girls [posts always start with “girls” 😁], first day of school tomorrow, are we supposed to take something in for the teacher?”

”Girls, Anya was invited to a friend’s house, am I suppto stay/go, bring anything?”

”Girls, school runs something called the Duke of Edinburgh scheme - suggesting DC join - anyone know about this?”

And so on.

If you’re English, none of these things will likely incite anxiety because you’re familiar with them. If you’re foreign, it can be very difficult.

And fwiw Slavic people generally are incredibly warm once they open up to you, which is a big contrast to the “hello over the garden fence first, maybe a Christmas card in year 4” style of many English people. It is difficult.

I hope this thread has given you some useful insight.

Brits will say things like 'we must do this again' or similar and they often don't mean it. I personally don't see anything sexual about the word crush but at the same time it doesn't seem appropriate to imply there's a romantic element just as they're the opposite sex. I do find Brits sexualise things that aren't sexual like nudity or beds!

I think the main thing here is you were trying to force the parents to attend, that will never work as you have made it very clear that you are not looking to be friends with this woman. Why would she want to spend time with you? A play date with parents in attendance will only ever work if you're friends with them too.

I think lots of Mums of children that age don’t really do play dates. They and their children are tired; maybe the child has younger siblings; maybe they want family time, etc etc etc.

Don’t take it personally. Just maintain the friendship the two have at nursery. Also, manage your child’s expectations. Mine wanted numerous people over to play at that age. Usually I just told them they’d see them again at nursery. Children that age do better with multiple friendships and don’t really have best friends.

Come off it - when OP says ‘crush’ she is referring to a cute friendship blossoming between her young son and a little girl, not organizing an arranged marriage!
I feel sorry for your son OP. He is too little to realise that adults can often have the habit of putting themselves and their convenience first. If I were that mother I would be thinking what does the little girl want. If she is equally excited about a play date with your son, I would either suck it up or send my husband to take her (guessing she has one).

The thing sometimes about some British culture is that certain phrases have a completely different meaning in reality - if I suggest a coffee and someone says “we’ll have to get it in the diary/let me check my diary and see what we’ve got going on” sounds like a “yes please” but in reality it’s a polite way of saying no. If they do use phrases like that and they genuinely do need to check they’ll get in touch to organise. Just my experience (been the recipient and used such phrases myself) but it could be easy to misread if you’re not used to it!

English people tend to be conflict averse and indirect. The onus is on the person who is asking to be sensitive to this. Most english people will agree to anything in principle, but will be vague with dates or give an excuse with no follow up as a way of rejecting an invitation. By continuing to ask after she had refused your invitation you came across as insensitive and pushy. Next time ask once or twice then say something along the lines of ‘No problem, let me know when you’re free and we can try to sort something’.

It may be the that the other kid doesn’t want a play date. My son has always had very good friends in nursery and school who he always liked a lot but was never keen on play dates or parties. I had to think of ways to put people off that didn’t offend them.

It's quite tricky at this age. The friendships that meet up are usually when the Mum's are friends. It might be that you came on a bit strong with her or she didn't like you for some reason but please don't take this personally. Remember that not every parent we meet with be someone we can be friends with. In the first few years of my ds life I struggled to make friends on my local area. It was an inner city ares and I had always worked full time and travelled to friends so didn't know anyone local. When I went to baby and toddler groups it was full of established friendship groups who were all locals so to speak rather than people who had moved there. We also had very little in common and I was a bit older. I just think they weren't that interested in me. We moved and suddenly I was surrounded by more similar women so made more friends. Also, when they begin school and are a bit older it becomes much more about who the kids are friends with than who the Mums are.

@Mrttyl who not just say ‘ he is a bit shy and not keen on play date. Why have to come up with something? That’s what I don’t get. I also am now feeling ‘ahhhhhh ok’ about all the times when someone you run into says ‘we must meet up’ but then never calls you or follows up. This is so strange. Why say it? We call that a lie in my culture. In England it is called ‘being polite’.

I just don’t understand why you spend energy making things up or pretending to be nice and then having to get out of it? Sounds very tiring, like being a spy or something.

@WonderingWanda thanks for sharing your story. I wonder if it is my age as well? And I just don’t have this local network as I didn’t grow up here. Sometimes I wish I was back home as I feel like I might never fit in but maybe things will get better at school.

i thought everyone did play dates and found it more fun to go out and about with another parent- someone else to chat to, can pop to the loo while other watches kids etc but I see that really isn’t true so now I will be more relaxed about it.

If both parties understand then it's not a lie. It's effective communication.

It's when one side doesn't understand the meaning that confusion is caused.

I've lived in a few countries and I've never not come across versions of this wherever I've gone.

Eg someone unthread included Indians as being blunt. I lived in India and the people were blunt about some things but used the same double speak about others. They have a way of saying they will do something they never intend to do. It's the same principle. If both people understand it then it's not a lie.

I think you need to be mindful of your tone, OP. You’re bordering on xenophobia. And, no i’m not English.

FWIW I think you are also using this double speak, OP. You keep saying you don't understand but I suspect what you mean is you don't like or agree with or approve of.

I could be wrong, of course.

From one of your posts, you mentioned you’d lived here for over a decade? If so, I must say i’m surprised you’re still saying you don’t understand the social norms in England.

As an aside, school gate politics occurs everywhere in the UK and beyond. It’s not an English-specific thing. I’ve always been ‘drop and run’ so never been affected.
I also let my children form their own friendships without me needing to be so heavily involved.

You mentioned several times that you would like to go back to your country of birth. Is that something your husband would support? Does he speak your language, etc? I’ve friends who moved back and are thriving but they all partners from the same country as them.

Quite

It’s only not true on mumsnet OP

Of course in real life it happens all the time, don’t give up you’ll eventually come across a like minded person who will think just like you.

You sound like a lovely person who just hasn’t met people similar to yourself.

My teen dd uses the word ‘crush’ to describe non sexual but intense new friendships or liking for someone. She said it the other day about two of her male friends who have formed a friendship, similar to how you would use the word ‘bromance’.

OP I don’t think you’ve done anything wrong, it’s just that this woman doesn’t have the same priorities as you do. People back off sometimes when they perceive intensity or demands upon them. It’s tough as of course you want your child to be happy and have friends but there is not a lot you can do to control these things. These friendships can come and go very quickly at this age. Just try your best to relax about it.

Is it a small town? Could be the other mum has relatives, long term friends nearby where her DD plays so has no need at all of a break from her. so she is wanting to chill before new baby and found your txts annoying as she isn't interested.

The OP might appreciate this compliment but in a lot of cases, it isn’t quite the compliment people think it is.
It could be a second language which has been studied to bachelor’s, Master’s or beyond.

Perfect explanation!

I'm also foreign and getting used to apologising for everything is s big step for integration into this culture. It sounds like @Okeydokedeva has not managed that yet and therefore some people are finding her too blunt.

I think op, she sounds a bit like how I felt pregnant on my third. I wouldn’t want play dates either as even with your kind offer of putting my feet up I would still have a feeling of having to entertain even in your home as I wouldn’t know you well enough to rest at ease as such. She could be really stressed out trying to juggle everything and have health issues going on too. I had a lot of pregnancy related ones I wouldn’t share with another nursery parent but would have made play dates miserable for me unless it was with long term friends that I felt comfortable around especially at the end! I think at four a few hours at nursery is plenty of time to socialise and we tend to use the rest of our time as family time and some long term friend time rather than fitting in regular dates with parents from nursery. I’d imagine it wasn’t a personal thing but it probably stressed her out a lot if it felt like you were not accepting no as such. Could you maybe as someone suggested do some outside clubs if you want extra interaction on a more regular basis? You might find a pool of parents that want to do more too?