Parents and play date politics (Title edited by MNHQ at request of OP)

[Okeydokedeva]

Got a strong willed, sweet but shy 4yr old ds. He can make some wonderful spontaneous friendships but struggles in large groups. He has a good friend at nursery and she and he has a lovely friendship. Every day he tells me stories and dreams about her. His little face melts.

the mum of the girl is heavily pregnant. She is local and has lots of friends I think. We don’t have much in common beyond the kids. We organised a play date at mine and it was clear to all of us how well they got on. Since then she has made lots of excuses and I feel a bit of a nag/Wally. Eventually she messaged me saying I was ‘overwhelming’ and that she had said she was pregnant and not making plans. I’ve tried to explain to my boy that his friends mum is tired etc. he does keep asking. It sucks. I feel really sad and ashamed. I feel like I am no good at this making friends with strangers thing. But most of all I feel so sad for him as this is his fave friend by far and it’s been going on three months now like this.

any advice????

Playdates are fine! Mine had a few at nursery with both boys and girls at this age. It's almost certainly the crush thing that has put the other mother off. So maybe in future just stick to asking a child to come and play and don't mention crushes.

I am sure you meant nothing wrong by it but everyone here seems pretty united in thinking that it's not appropriate. Write it off to a culture clash and just steer clear of that terminology next time.

Are you French OP?
The English just don’t really do the whole ´amoureux/amoureuse’ thing for talking about young kids’ infatuations with each other. So it just comes across as projecting adult/adolescent visions of interpersonal relationships onto preschoolers and therefore creepy. To be fair, it absolutely is a projection of adult relationship norms onto kids too young to understand it. Everyone laughs when preschoolers say silly things like ´when I grow up I’m going to marry mummy’ because it’s just evidence of how they don’t have a concept yet of romantic love and partners. In France when people talk about preschoolers having crushes there’s an understanding that it’s not actually a romantic attachment, it’s just an intense preschool friendship. That doesn’t exist in England in my experience so I’d definitely drop the ´crush’ talk until the teenage years.
Sorry if I’ve guessed the country wrong. But the same principle applies and you’re not crazy or creepy, just coming from different cultural norms.

@rickyrickygrimes thank you for sharing that - I am getting a lot of flack here and being told I am aggressive and not listening and I am just trying to say it isn’t as weird as english people think elsewhere - I also find that the english are understandably sensitive about and obsessed with sexualisation, I think because of all the massive sex abuse scandals in the church and on telly (Russell brand, jimmy saville etc) . You’re allowed to do what you like in the uk as a man as long as you are famous or wealthy, this has translated into a quite hysterical reaction to a simple word. I am from the former Yugoslavia. We are more playful in our words and more trusting of other people I think maybe??

Pot kettle

So after her last response you messaged three or four times? That’s quite a lot! If he sees her at nursery then that’s enough tbh! It’s difficult I agree. Just explain that her mummy can’t always come over so they can meet at nursery instead.

You were wrong for bombarding and harassing a pregnant woman to give you her very small child for your son’s amusement. And you continue to fail to see why she wants nothing to do with you after she’s literally told you you’re overwhelming. You’ve been told it’s too much, and you’re on here asking for advice on how to force her to say yes.

OP i’m not from UK also. I’m asian and you are too pushy even for me OP. I would feel overwhelmed also if i meet parent like you in nursery. They meet in nursery anyway so its enough. Just give her space. And dont ask dads to do playdate, it will put her off even more.

I wouldn’t like someone joking that their child fancied my child, even as a joke.

Nope. I’ve never harassed and actually likely frightened a pregnant women because she wouldn’t give me theiir toddler for my child to play with ‘1-4 times a fortnight’

@Okeydokedeva is it perhaps that you are looking more for friends for yourself rather than your son ? I think you said earlier in the thread there you did have friends but your son didn't get on too well with their children ? I think maybe relax a little bit and continue to meet up with those women you are friendly with. Hopefully your son will get his own friendship group when he starts school . Are you a full time mum?/do you have a job? (Being nosey but I was wondering if you were feeling isolated if it's just you and your DS and perhaps you aren't working).

If you look into it you’ll probably find that sexual abuse is an everywhere problem. Cultural differences might govern if and how it’s talked about, how it’s dealt when when discovered as well as measures people take to keep themselves and their kids safe. But if you scratch beneath the surface you’ll uncover abuse everywhere unfortunately.

I think your response is actually quite rude . The OP has explained she is from a different culture and is feeling isolated. Why would you be so nasty towards someone?

@Okeydokedeva Thanks for saying where you are from. This is making huge amounts of sense now.

I think I see what the problem is and will try to explain.

I used to work in science and we had lots of different nationalities. Some nationalities have a sort of standard personality type.

Apologies in advance for talking in stereotypes (see me doing it. Apologising is a knee-jerk thing here)

The Eastern European / slavic stereotype is that they tend to say what they mean and be quite blunt about it. To English people is comes across as rudeness, but for those who are used to it we just think "oh, that person is slavic. Not rude, just blunt."

I read once I think that people from Russia don't trust people who fawn over each other with fake niceness, but do trust people who are blunt. This is because then they know that those blunt people will always tell the truth.

From reading your posts, that is what I am hearing from you. Would that be right? Are you showing your honesty by being blunt in the proper slavic way?

Standard English people are not like that and they work in riddles.

Things you need to know:

1. We apologise all the time and it just means "I am safe and well meaning. I am saying that I am in the wrong, but I don't really think that. I am just saying that to let you know that I care about your feelings and mean well."

If you knee-jerk apologist to an English person then 9 times out of 10 they will say "oh not at all, please think nothing of it." That actually means "thank you for considering my feelings. I see that you are nice, and I will consider talking to you again."

2. sometimes English people will pretend that they can't see another person, especially at the school gate. I think that just means that they don't know how to handle that person, and so they avoid contact by literally pretending that the person is invisible.

3. If an English person texts you and says "back off you are being too pushy etc." then you have made a massive social gaff and your relationship with that person is almost certainly over for ever. If you keep pushing then it practically becomes a police matter. English people really never say blunt things like that, so if one does, then that is a sign that you urgently need to back off.

4. Small talk is immensely important in England. If you haven't discussed the weather at length for several weeks before you ask about play dates, then you are moving too fast. If you persist, then quite soon you will find that the person is pretending that you are invisible.

Does that sort of help?

Again, sorry for talking in stereotypes. I'm sure that lots of people will say that I am talking rubbish, and then I will need to apologise another 45 times.

I am not English btw, from a different UK home nation. I live in England and was invisible for years in the primary school playground.

Op it's probably just be as simple as she's pregnant and knackered and doesn't want one more thing on her to do list. You want her to give you a regular slot of her time. She probably wants to nap and not chat to an acquaintance. I'm sure your kid is cute but it's not her responsibility to indulge him.

@ShinyAppleDreamingOfTheSea i work for myself and so don’t get out so much. I’m also recently extremely severely disabled from a horrific accident which forced me away from my ds for several months in hospital - so it’s been a lot to adapt to. I hear you that yes maybe I am a bit lonely even if I do have some local friends. I would just love to have a really good mate with whom both our kids really get on. I have that with my sister in law, super close with all my nephews and the youngest is the same age and they get on so well but she is an hours drive - it’s just my dream to have a chum to pop over for tea with their littlies and everyone to get on. That’s all :(

🤣🤣🤣 I love it!! So true yet so weird. But true. It’s actually scary if I count the number of times I apologise daily yet never do anything wrong 😑

@Okeydokedeva yes I absolutely agree that people are nervous about sexualisation in the UK. I lived in France for a while, where sexualisation was a big part of life. In England it is an absolute "no-no".

If you want to understand it, ask adult women whether they had a Barbie or a Sindy doll as a child. You will find a large number of women who strongly object to the sexualisation of Barbie.

A lot of people here really like the film "the sound of music" in which the female lead is conspicuously romantic but not sexual. That is a think here. It's kind of improper to be sexual.

You will see a lot of examples of conspicuously sexual people being villified in the press while very modest women are not.

(Sorry)

At this age why would anyone care what sex their kids pals are?

I understand you want a friend for yourself and for your child but remember this woman is pregnant with a young child so she’s probably exhausted. She won’t want to make plans for play dates. I’ve just had a baby with a young child already and dreaded play dates as I just felt too tired for small talk and for wrangling my child.

I know you’ve offered for her to rest and the children play but I’d also say she doesn’t know you well enough for this.

Sadly she’s made it clear she wants space. If your child asks if she’s coming to play then gently say no, you’ll see her at nursery next time.

The word crush is fine for children but not really at that age range. The parent may worry that your child is becoming too attached to her daughter and not want her child to only play with him.

@RoundWeGoAgain2 thank you so much for this. I’ve asked for explanations before from english husband but never got as good as this, thank you! Yes exactly. It’s all about being straight and honest and english people often get upset if you try to make an honest point. Interestingly, I studied in Glasgow and never had these issues there- I found Scots and Welsh and Irish to be much more well rounded, secure in themselves and good humoured . This list of socail norms you have explained actually sounds quite hard, how do people actually become proper honest real friends then? By discussing the weather for weeks?

i understand I have blown it for my son and I feel terrible about it. It has been very helpful to understand more what I did wrong so thanks again to you and those who took the trouble to help me understand. It does make me a bit sad for our future here though.

It feels such a cold way of interacting - how horrible to hear you were ignored in the playground. Just plain nasty. What’s the point in saying sorry all the time if you try to humiliate people by ignoring them in public? As adults?? What is with that??

I'm glad that helps.

I'm from Glasgow and my best friends are all from Ukraine, even though I live in England.

I have no idea how to talk to English people properly. Sorry about that. LOL.

Some one should write a book about it to demystify the English for the rest of us.

Thinking back, I once asked my Ukrainian friend too often if her son would like to come to her house.

She said "no he would not like to come because your son is too young and boring to him."

And I thought. "yes that is a fair point." and I went home.

The lady and her son are still our closest friends and after a brief gap, the son comes round all the time now.

LOL.

Is the other mum just really heavily pregnant so just cannot do more than get through the week?

The exception in England is people who are autistic spectrum or of conspicuously german ancestry.

They are often quite blunt. I am both.