hard to watch very young kids addicted to screens

[fleurneige]

We have several young friends with toddlers, aged between 20 months and 3.5 years- and they all give kids their phone or tablet as soon as they start whining a bit or saying they are bored. Honestly, it is hard to watch how addicted they already are, and having massive tantrums if they don't get phone or tablet when requested.

How do you feel? Thanks for discussion.

It’s definitely becoming a huge issue. Almost every time I go shopping I see a baby / toddler sat in a pram or shopping trolley glued to a screen. In fact it’s quite rare to see young kids not glued to them. My DC are older children / early teens and I remember the advise was no or very limited screen time before 2. So I stuck to that more or less with DC1. Perhaps 20 mins of in the night garden a couple of times a week around 18months but certainly no more than that and definitely no phone screens. Now it seems much more acceptable to stick an under 2 year old in front of a screen whenever you feel like it. And I’m hearing a lot of teachers say that speech and language issues are rising. A lot of parents are just not interacting with their kids as much eg talking to them as they walk around the shop. It’s really worrying but I also know many parents will defend it.

Was never meant to be 'goady'

I truly wonder why your reaction is so negative, bordering on virulent?

I’ve already stated why through the thread.

judgement for judgements sake is bollocks and unhelpful and nothing productive actually comes from it.

i suggested several topics to which we could have delved into about increased use of screens.

@TomeTome Fifty years ago there was about 3 hours of TV aimed at children afterschool and on Saturday. But that programming covered all ages. Playschool for young children, up to programmes aimed at later primary age. So even then few children would have watched it all.
When video recorders became common there was concern about some parents putting children's videos on all day long for their children. But these tended to be the families who were fairly neglectful towards their children anyway.
The big difference was you could not take a TV and video player outside with you. So that did naturally limit how much any child watched.
The fact phones and tablets are portable is the game changer.

And interacting with children is labelled as performance parenting by some, when it is just what all good parents used to do.

Perhaps you could tell us about your experience re children and use of screens. Counter criticism and negativity with your positive experiences?

Mine have tech at home but not out and about.
However people are nasty and judgy and ‘tut’ so much at kids, young kids especially. It’s no wonder parents resort to phones to keep them quiet.
Thankfully (the one thing I’m thankful for) lockdown killed those years for me so I missed taking my younger two to restaurants etc. Only had the oldest one and they weren’t too bad.

There is one thing to let the child watch a couple hours of tv (which my 2 years old do every day).
However, giving the child tablet/phone is complitely unnecessary.
It's ok for the child to be bored. They should be. That's when their imagination and creativity develop.
There are so many toys/books to entertain your child while on the bus/waiting somewhere/shopping/eating out, etc. Putting the tablet and phone in front of them just easier.

I have never used tablet or phone at home or outside. They don't miss it if they don't know about it.

People talking about people tutting at your children - are you taking them to restaurants before they are too young for this? There are some things children are just developmentally not ready for and many 2 year olds could not sit in a restaurant for 90 minutes while the adults talk.

You want me to list positive experiences of screen time?

for my child, it gives her a much needed wind down after eight hours of learning and play at nursery. The same way many of us come home and just want to lounge on the sofa. She has about an hour in the evening if it’s on and it can be anything from Julia Donaldson shorts to a Disney film or she loves Miss Rachel which has helped her hugely with her conversational speech developmen, similar to Bing and Topsy and Tim. I personally don’t like YouTube stuff but that’s my preference.

she has a tablet that we’ve used before on long train journeys and she has interactive learning games which have helped her with problem solving and fine motor skills.

Shes at the age now where she is having emotional reactions to movies now which is wonderful to share with her.

For me it’s allowed me the break I need to get things done, for my own mental health during lockdown, or to spend some time actually catching up with friends or family.

and from an autistic child perspective, sometimes it’s because I’ve had two hours sleep where she’s been up the entire night and I still need to get things done and j desperately need to just not have to deal with screaming and jumping and crying for five minutes in a shop.

sometimes she has a tablet because we are out and about and her ear defenders are not enough to help her cope with it and she goes into her pram with the hood down to try and remove as much sensory experience as we can and for her to try and regulate herself.

yesterday she actually walked along with her tablet. Why? Because she had been subjected to a flurry or sirens which had caused a meltdown where I was on a pavement for half an hour trying to stop her smashing her head. I can’t lift her as I had abdominal surgery last year and this was the only way she was flint to walk home. The tablet can be a lifesaver in public.

Thank you for this, and I am glad that with your child with special needs, it is helping you both.

So I guess that at nursery, for 8 hours- she does not have access to a screen. Her use is therefore very limited by the very nature of her attendance at nursery. Many children who have huge amounts of screentime do not attend nursery, or have special needs.

Whether we like it or not- educationalists and other children specialists are indeed concerned about the effect on the majority of children, on so so many levels- emotional, psychological, educational and developmental, and much more.

Too young for restaurants, Jesus wept.

There is nothing wrong with taking a baby or child to a restaurant provided it's an appropriate venue - eg a family friendly restaurant, high chairs and children's menus provided. There is nothing wrong with children making developmentally appropriate noise in public. Children do not have to be silent. Your attitude is the exact reason that some mothers end up using screens to ensure silence.

If you require a restaurant without children, go somewhere more upmarket or obviously not aimed at children. I eat out a lot, and I've never encountered a problem with children and noise. If I want a quiet, adult atmosphere, I go somewhere appropriate for that.

Equally, if I want my baby/toddler to come with me, I go to a family friendly venue, they make age appropriate noise and behave as a baby/toddler typically would because we don't use screens. If anyone has a problem with that (and people often do!), I don't bloody care!

I agree with you - there IS an issue with screens and screen addiction - but the majority of commentators on here were not responding to that but anecdotally judging strangers they see in public, which is what I was taking issue with.

It’s very worrying. I am not anti phone or screen by the way, I think they have their place. However, they are far too over used. The moment some of the children in my family start to appear slightly bored they’re given a tablet to pacify them- what is that teaching them? What life skills or resilience are they building up?

Not only that but they can scroll past anything that doesn’t hold their attention for longer than 30 seconds. We are then expecting these children to attend school and sit and pay attention for 6-7 hours a day, sometimes in complete silence with no control over the topic or content. It is having a detrimental impact on behaviour.

It isn’t judgmental to be genuinely worried about the impact technology is going to have/has already had on future generations if we don’t start regulating the use of it more.

@BubziOwl I was reacting to those saying people tut if you do not give your child a screen in a restaurant.
And when you talk about availability of high chairs and children's menus you are talking about cheaper places to eat out. So are you saying anywhere is family friendly unless you can afford high prices?
It is fine for children to chatter and babble, it is not fine to screech and cry out and scream. And yes some children can not manage a meal out until older.

I understand, and respect this.

And am glad you acknowledge there is a serious issue and it is worth discussing and see how we can all, as a society, as parents, educationalits, grandparents, etc, can deal with those issues. Thanks.

Yes, I understand exactly what you're saying.

It's not my fault that it tends to be the more upmarket venues that make it clear they are not appropriate for children. It's not my fault that the cheaper venues tend to cater to families. I am merely stating it's ridiculous to expect children to not be making age appropriate noise in venues that are explicitly targeting families with young children as customers by providing high chairs, children's menus, and toys.

It's entirely appropriate for a baby, toddler or young child to "cry out" in public. I will take my child outside to calm down if they cry or make a fuss for more than say 30 seconds, which luckily for me isn't often at all, but it's just absurd to expect that small children will be able to control their emotions at all times. And it's equally absurd to expect them to avoid public places until they can do so.

But before it was common or acceptable to put a screen in their hand while you had a cup of coffee you either took a few books or a small toy… and I’m not talking that long ago. And you accepted that if your child got fidgety you might have to leave before you wanted to.

Well it's a thanks from me, I'm really glad you did bother! First time stumbling upon one and was just feeling like a guult laden pariah for the screen time my 18 month old gets when I'm changing a poopy nappy/grabbing a shower/trying to do the dishwasher or some other task or even just 10 minutes to take a breath and crack on with the rest of the epic parenting day that is toddler life.

I also think it depends in the child. The idea of taking my 18 momth old who is NT, has geeat vocab and is very sociable for a lunch and just asking him to happily sit there nicely colouring in for the length of an adult meal hahahahaaa no feckin' way. You've got about 4 1/2 minute tops before he's pissed off and bored. Going by this thread that appears to be unusual though, and I should be expecting him to engage in a "chat" for the rest of the lunch.

Not unusual. Most parents could not take very young children for an adult lunch in the past.

@BubziOwl I totally disagree. We stopped going to a local pub because so many times there would be young kids running around screeching and yelling.

In "the past" 🤣Absolute tosh. we took infant to teenage ds for lunch regularly before screens were mainstream and so did many parents, he was taught to remain seated and removed if he became too disruptive, that is just what we and most parents did . We went to pubs, cafes, chinese/indian/ italian etc and there were always children around.

The difference is ds didn't expect the stimulation from a screen and we didn't have the choice so they learned to be a bit bored and take an interest in what was going on around them, they would play with small toys as they were used to that lower level of stimulation, we would always have one eye on him ready to distract or enagage in a toy differently.

Honestly, if i was a parent of young dc now they would probably be screen obsessed too, but seeing it happing to younger children I know it is very obviously resulting in different development in children and not in a good way, I think responsible for a lot of the anxiety around social interaction and MH crisis we see now in young people.

@NoTouch Some parents took their young kids for meals. Those who knew their child could not cope with that did not.
Screens were not available to zombiefy children.

I disagree with teens and older kids. In reality activities cost a fortune to join classes and for older kids to go things. I don't think a baby/toddler is comparable to a teen nor older child let's not lump them in the same category.

We would have to agree to disagree. Tween, teen brains haven't even finished developing yet so I'm not sure why we are suggesting there isn't an impact. There is plenty of research to speak to the negative impact of social media use and unsupervised internet access re: teens.

The second my older kids hit 11yrs old their friends stopped going out and playing footie at lunch or anything - they just started all sitting around playing on their phones. When their friends come over they seem at a complete loss for anything to do but play video games. When I drive their friends places in my car the kids old laughter and banter has been replaced by silence as each looks at their phones.

My boys without phones, without tablets - can still play, their days are not filled with hours of YouTube/Tik Tok and I believe their mental health to be better for it in the long run.

There is plenty of research to speak to the negative impact of social media use and unsupervised internet access re: teens. That’s less about the screen and more about what is being allowed on it though isn’t it? TV or books could be equally damaging if you were allowing free access to any content.