Really horrible problem, but desperate for help!

[Molesdigginholes]

DS is 3. Have been trying to toilet train him for a while, had success with wee but not with poo, he just soils himself.

My problem is when trying to clean him up he starts being really stupid. Not sure if through embarrassment but he starts giggling and trying to lean on me, not supporting his weight at all, roaming around and not standing still. This means poo ends up everywhere. He also sometimes puts his hands to his bottom and gets poo on them and wipes on me 🤢

The more annoyed I get the funnier he seems to find it so I need to approach this differently - but how?

Can you just distract as much as possible? Give him fidget-type toys to hold, or even distract with a short video on a tablet or phone, until he gets beyond this annoying phase of finding it funny to muck around like that.

He is 3, make him behave.

With the potential of having even more mess, can you try and get him to wipe himself? Maybe use a wetwipe as that's what he knows.

Wow. She is asking for suggestions for this. How do you propose she does so?

I might have to @givemushypeasachance .
He’d just get it everywhere if I got him to do it himself … really horrible problem!

Is he constipated and getting over flow as it's usually the other way round, poo first then wees for toilet training?

Tbh I'd get firm if there's poo getting everywhere, he's 3 and old enough to behave.

Won't last long, another stage to get though.

What consequences do you give for that kind of behaviour?

Ha! I’ve been there. You need to perfect ‘the look’.
The one that means there is a time and a place for being silly but this isn’t one of them. At 3 he isn’t too young to understand.

Getting firm just makes him laugh, is the problem. The sterner you are the more funny he seems to find it.

Really @MrsPelligrinoPetrichor ? I thought most children got wee first then poo.

@fridaynight1 he really isn’t bothered at all by a look. I’m struggling to find consequences he’d care about. It would need to be immediate and I have no idea what to do right there and then he’d understand and realise ‘if I do that again this will happen.’ Behaviour is a challenge just now.

Probably best not to threaten cold showers as a punishment because I would be reporting that as a safeguarding concern if it came up in the course of my job @cheeseandketchupsandwich. That's up there with washing kids mouths out with soap for swearing and taking meals away as punishments!

It’s also not very practical - what if it happens out and about?!

so discipline him without acting stern

Find something he does care about and use it as leverage? Take a favourite toy in with you and if he gets poo on it, say you’ll have to throw it away?

Oh good lord. I made it clear I didn't actually mean a cold shower, read the fucking post.

When I had a 3 year old he was able to understand that germs make you poorly and this can come from poo . Can you try and explain this as 3 year old friendly as possible ?
I know it's easier said than done !

I could try that @MsAdoraBelleDearheartVonLipwig although it does kind of feel like I’m the target, attention seeking I’m guessing?

Oh gosh this sounds tough, poor you!!!

Could you talk him through what you're going to do and then do it? Would he be motivated by a star chart or reward system? My little one is not quite 3 but she's pretty switched on if I lay out expectations ahead of time. So thinking 'Oh dear you've got poo in your pants! Poo goes in the toilet not pants. Now I'm going to clean you up then we can do x together. If you stay still whilst I get you clean you can put a star on your chart. What colour star would you like?' Perhaps have something ready to go that you can show him before the clean up begins. Then "as soon as youre clean we can play this/do this puzzle/read this book" for example as an incentive?

As hard as it sounds it seems like it would be beneficial if you could curb your reactions. I would get on with the task at hand as quickly and quietly as possible, and not give his antics any undue attention. I'd praise him every time he was standing still or did anything in anyway which made your life easier so his good behaviours are the ones which get your attention, but any behaviour you don't want to see I wouldn't react at all.

If you're under a true time pressure and his behaviour means you run out of time and can't play the game/do the puzzle as promised, that's a natural consequence of his decision to play around. At which point you can reenforce 'You're disappointed, you wanted to play with the puzzle! If only we'd been finished in the bathroom sooner, we could have had so much fun. How frustrating!'. Might be a slow burner, but he'll soon learn that being cooperative means he gets your attention, which is probably what he wants!

Do you have a cot? Playpen?

Just say NO and put him somewhere.

The shower would work too.

What, covered in poo!?

I’m not sure if I’ve made it clear, he deliberately tries to lean into me and walks around so that poo goes everywhere. It’s absolutely awful.

I posted because I picked him up from preschool and he had pooed, took him to get changed and he was giggling and cackling away, leaning into me and I’m of course saying no, stand there so I can sort this but he’s giggling all the more and putting his hands in it 🤢 and roaming around so poo is getting all over his legs and trying to lean against me so poo would go on me.

It is really revolting and I have a very strong reaction to it, to the point I do feel it’s affecting how I feel about him a bit, which is awful.

Oh mate :( don't beat yourself up too much about it affecting your feelings. I can't imagine there are many parents out there who like their offspring 100% of the time!!! And this does sound particularly awful.

What do you think would motivate him? If I suggested to my littlest she go back into nappies she would dislike the idea immensely. Would such a threat be motivating to him? When you've got him in the place where you'll clean him up, get a nappy out of the bag and say it's for him unless he stands still and let you clean him nicely? Could you lie him on a change mat so he's in one place and can't roam around? Or perhaps if it's at preschool say 'I can't clean you here as you'll get me messy, so we'll have to wait till we get home', maybe sitting in it for a tiny while (assuming you don't live a long way from preschool!) might be enough of a horrid consequence? Trying desperately to think outside of the box.

If you have even the smallest flicker of a feeling that he's doing it for attention though then I sincerely believe withdrawing the 'reward' of your attention is the best thing you can do. Once he stops getting a rise out of you it might stop being a game (allbeit a disgusting, unhygienic game) and he'll be more cooperative?

This is what I struggle with as he doesn’t seem to care about anything. Wouldn’t care about being dirty, being back in nappies or anything. Or maybe he DOES but he doesn’t let on. It is a worry for me.

Has he diarrhea? I don't understand how once you've taken the poo in the nappy away, there's still so much poo left on him to smear a mess this much.

Not exactly no but often quite sloppy for want of a better word. Gross but sometimes quite sticky and gets stuck between his bum cheeks. And ends up down his legs.