Really horrible problem, but desperate for help!

[Molesdigginholes]

DS is 3. Have been trying to toilet train him for a while, had success with wee but not with poo, he just soils himself.

My problem is when trying to clean him up he starts being really stupid. Not sure if through embarrassment but he starts giggling and trying to lean on me, not supporting his weight at all, roaming around and not standing still. This means poo ends up everywhere. He also sometimes puts his hands to his bottom and gets poo on them and wipes on me 🤢

The more annoyed I get the funnier he seems to find it so I need to approach this differently - but how?

OK @GreenRaven but you’re not actually giving advice on how that can be achieved, are you? Other posters are.

Anyway, he’s just soiled his pants but no real silliness apart from trying to use DHs leg as a fireman’s pole. So that’s something.

Yes I have, the OP needs a system of discipline that does not involve "stern" talking.

@Molesdigginholes
just some support/solidarity really
my 2 were (according to others) quite ‘good’ at toilet training although dc2 took a bit longer. I still even years later recall it as the worst bit of child rearing. I think it’s to do with them having quite a bit of control and realising they do, with mixed results!

just picking up on your post that you also have a baby girl - I do think you are right as you said further up to let her spend some time with dh and you give ds some special time at the weekend.

I think a new ish baby who in your words has been grumpy, along with you being understandably tired, plus ds and the poo shenanigans - it’s not an easy time for you. Maybe give yourself a break too even if it’s a peaceful half hour in a coffee shop. Don’t wait till you feel frazzled try and do it regularly for an hour or two whatever activity works for you.

Or the following weekend ds has lots of special time with daddy if he is still struggling with this aspect of potty training.

But anyway, the whole tone of the problem is all face about - why is the OP in a relationship with her son where he can do this? That is the issue - not how to clean his bum. He should know not to. So what actually is the problem here? trauma? SEN? no parental-type relationship?

All your posts are like this. Look.

He is 3, make him behave

it doesn't sound like the changing is the probelm, tbh, it sounds like it is your whole relationship. Would you agree?

so discipline him without acting stern

They state facts (he is 3) and then say things like ‘discipline him’ ‘make him behave’ ‘the OP needs a system of discipline that doesn’t involve stern talking’.

It isn’t helpful.

Three year olds are notoriously difficult. This is a very recent problem and it has coincided with other silly behaviour. It’s hard at this stage to know whether it’s just a phase or whether he’s building up to something (DS often gets very challenging when unwell or in pain) but the above posts aren’t helpful and others have called you out on it. I just ignored initially but it is becoming a bit tedious as it’s derailing the thread which actually DOES have some helpful suggestions, along with the compulsory diagnosis of ASD of course!

Thanks @Nomorecoconutboosts . She’s 7.5 months so not a newborn but she isn’t very well and cries whenever I put her down. So I am conscious DS has been a bit sidelined. On top of that we were on holiday last week so his routine was out of sync.

@GreenRaven look, if every three year old who behaved like an arse had trauma or SEN then that’s what, every three year old?

My daughter cracked wees around May/June time but it took until October/November for poos.

She has toddler diarrhoea and food allergies which means her poos are often loose and she doesn't get a lot of notice. I think this meant it was harder for to get the cues for poos. At first there were a mix of successes and misses but it then got worse and we only had misses. We spoke to our paediatrician who suggested putting her back into nappies but we didn't want to lose the progress we had made with wees but if we had a day with 2 soiled knickers we put in a pull up for the rest of the day. It reached a crisis point when she was on the potty having a wee when she started to poo and she jumped up and insisted her knickers were put back on for her to poo in them. We had to go out so put her into a pull up for her to use.

We then introduced a reward system with coloured pom poms and a jar. She hadn't previously given 2fks about rewards but this she engaged with. It's quite visual and you only need a couple for it to look quite full. At first she got a small reward for 5 poos on the potty and a bigger one for 10. Now she gets them for 10 poos on the toilet and we have probably 2 accidents a month and these are when she has completely missed the cues and is shocked by the look on her face.

I would read up about toddler diarrhoea. There are some simple dietary changes that can help. For us limiting grapes and dried fruit has made a difference and we try to add fats to dinners when she is in none eating mood and living off plain pasta and now olive oil!

I would try to be as neutral as possible during through the nappy change and not engage with the silly behaviour. Ok, let's get you cleaned up. I'm going to get some wipes. Do we need some mores soon. I would have to go to the shop. I could pop to the coop but they are usually more expensive Tesco might be better but that's a drive away, if we went now there might be traffic from the schools.Or these clothes will have to go in the wash. I'm think the every day wash would be ok. Anything to keep you in that neutral space. A mantra in your head might work too. When my daughters was little I would say to myself please help me help you. As soon as the silly behaviour stops switch the conversation to engaging with him and what you are doing after the nappy change.

If a child has a choice between being told off or being ignored, they'll take being told off. Dogs are the same.

I didn't spot the new DD at first because I was too busy looking up a link to the Bristol Stool Chart. https://exploringyourmind.com/sibling-rivalry-when-oldest-dethroned/ seems relevant and turned up in my search results after I added "child psychology" to "dethroned emperor".

Does he possibly have toddler diarrhoea?Apple juice was a trigger for DS, definitely changed the consistency of his poo

Nobody is diagnosing your kid ffs. It's something that bears thinking about in the face of this behaviour. The dismissing of additional needs being nothing more a compulsory suggestion, is pretty insulting to those of us who live with it, and know how it presents in our children (in my case, very similar to your child - actually my children's behaviour was less severe - they never smeared) and are trying to help you.

His behaviour IS more extreme than a typical 3 year old, so it was actually worth you considering whether he may have additional needs. Maybe some tactics employed by parents of children with additional needs might have helped your son, if you opened your mind to it. Shouting at and getting pissed off with my kids has never, ever helped.

But sure, your child couldn't POSSIBLY have additional needs which affect his behaviour and which explains why he's not grasped potty training yet.

Sorry I haven't read the entire thread but I dealt with this a few months ago.

Distraction on the 'funny' messy stuff, I realised my DD was embarrassed but thought making a joke out of it would help.

and I had to find something that really motivated her to put the effort in to stop. Stickers, treats, she didn't care about them enough. In the end her beloved nursery teacher cracked it by telling DD there would be no sitting on her lap until she started pooing in the toilet. Suddenly the number of accidents reduced to almost none!

@Dontforgetthesalamander it isn’t intended to be dismissive but as an isolated event (and one that’s only started very recently) isn’t an indicator, and I am very familiar with neurodiversity.

The thread has mostly been helpful but turning it into ‘how to potty train’ (ie give up) isn’t … sorry but it isn’t.