Really horrible problem, but desperate for help!

[Molesdigginholes]

DS is 3. Have been trying to toilet train him for a while, had success with wee but not with poo, he just soils himself.

My problem is when trying to clean him up he starts being really stupid. Not sure if through embarrassment but he starts giggling and trying to lean on me, not supporting his weight at all, roaming around and not standing still. This means poo ends up everywhere. He also sometimes puts his hands to his bottom and gets poo on them and wipes on me 🤢

The more annoyed I get the funnier he seems to find it so I need to approach this differently - but how?

1. repeat to yourself “he won’t be doing this when he’s a teenager” - it helps to remind you it’s a phase.
2. remember he doesn’t get just how gross it is - he just likes grossing you out. He doesn’t actually comprehend HOW disgusting it is.
3. go easy on yourself. We’ve all been in a cubical trying to avoid touching everything, trying to stop the child grabbing the loo or covering themselves in crap, squealing as it all goes to…shit. It’s horrid but it’s something kids do - I wouldn’t think any further on it tbh.

maybe just try pull ups for two weeks until things have calmed down. DON’T tell him they’re nappies though. And hide the packaging so he doesn’t notice. Just get some that look as close to pants as possible and call them pants and keep them in his pants drawer.

Just because your health visitor thinks something doesn’t mean you have to follow their advice. It’s all well and good when you’re not the one getting covered in shit every day. Also you being upset and having to fight him to get him clean is probably just making the whole potty training thing a “thing”. Sometimes you just have to pause and try again at a later date.

I just wonder what their approach is, that he doesn't seem to mess about with them.
Could it be, as PPs have suggested that there is some difficulty in him pooing, or some discomfort? That combined with the usual "letting off steam" or behaviours perceived as 'naughty' (for want of other appropriate terminology) when in a relaxed home environment resulting in the issues you're having at present.

Apologies if I'm reiterating what has already been said, or you've already got answers/solutions of a sort to this - I'm reading and writing on my phone and it's incredibly slow to load and update.

Then she’s abusive. How you can defend splashing a child with cold water while they’re toilet training is disgusting. I find it interesting that you chose to quote my post tbh as many other posters have already questioned your post.

put him back in nappies until he’s ready to toilet train. If he’s soiling every poo he’s clearly not ready. Try again in a year or so

Bribe him. "If you stay still while we clean you up, you can have a story/your favourite food for dinner/a walk to feed the ducks".

He's 3 - he has no concept of germs etc. This is a phase (as are all things with children) and won't last long don't worry.

@PurpleClovers I think yours was the latest one I scrolled to. I couldn't be bothered to scroll through and reply to all. Nothing personal meant by it

It’s still abusive - perhaps your SIL could learn a lot from this thread.

Most pointless comment of the week award goes to you. Congrats! 🙌

@PurpleClovers

No need. Both her children are toilet trained with hardly any accidents (if at all) and have been for a while now.

I'd go back to nappies for a while to break the this whole cycle of behaviour.

My DS was like this. To solve it long term I would suggest trying to figure out why his poos aren't well formed - could he have an allergy or intolerance?

I would definitely think about going back to pull ups, even if just to give you both a break for a couple of weeks.

With my DS we started to deal with it by sitting him on the toilet 10 minutes after he had finished each meal. That's when they are most likely to poo.

I hate to tell you this, but it took my DS til aged 7 to be able to reliably poo in the toilet.

Looking back I am sure that all the stupid behaviour around cleaning up was his way of dealing with the fact that he was failing because he was not able to control the pooing, so he felt bad.

He’ll be four and a quarter - there’s a thread with hate for parents who wait until they’re 2!

I don’t want to undo the progress we HAVE made, and accidents are to be expected and I genuinely believe a lot of the poor behaviour is embarrassment, but he does need to learn to stay still.

Not every poo is loose, some are ah ‘neater’ than others shall we say. But he has eaten a LOT of fruit and veg over the last few days which is good in a way but has led to some very messy poos.

I am a bit tired so haven’t dealt with it as calmly as I should have. And calm is the best way to deal with DS but it’s easier said than done being calm with a pooey child!

Poor children having been toilet trained using cold water through fear.

We’ll leave it at that shall we? I really don’t engage with anyone who thinks abuse against children is normal and I don’t want to detail the thread for the OP as there’s lots of good device being posted for her.

Do you have a younger child? Perhaps he sees the attention you give a baby when you change his/her nappy and this is a call for attention?

This will pass! My eldest is also indeed challenging sometimes. He is very much a carrot child so rewards are what get you good behaviour. Being stern/ shouting etc generally gets you defiance. If you give him something to “push back “ against, he will dig his heels in.

id come at it differently and try two things - one work on setting out clear expectations about what and in what order you will do things in if he has had an accident. He is generally less challenging if he knows what’s happening and why. Two - distraction- whatever it takes - stickers/ toys/screen - whatever is more interesting than poo.

Make sure potty is comfy for linger sits.

I got s treasure chest full of amazing treats like Quality Street... he could only choose one for doing a poo on the potty... shouldn't have worked, but did.

I do but it won’t be that. Which isn’t to say it isn’t attention seeking behaviour but I don’t think it’s a desire to go back to nappies. I don’t really know what’s happening with poos but I do think he feels embarrassed and upset when he soils himself but can’t articulate it so laughs, which infuriates me. Need to breathe through my mouth! And stay calm.

Have our children met lol, you’ve described my DS perfectly!

Who cares what other people think. You child is purposely smearing shit everywhere and soils his pants every time. He’s not toilet trained. Not even close. If you want to endure this for goodness knows how much longer that’s up to you. Personally I’d sack it off and put him in nappies until he’s grown up a bit. Maybe there is some neurodivergence at play. Either way I’d sooner have him in nappies until he starts school than this!

@PurpleClovers

But you have engaged. Ta ta

Can you use a changing table/mat? Do not do it standing up. My 7 year old soils and I was laying him down to sort it out until he was 5 or so I think as even when he wasn't fighting it it just gets everywhere. Now he's older we do what we call a "little bath" 5cm water and a flannel to clean him off. Let water out and rinse him and bath with shower.

At 3 I would say he will understand no tv/yummy snack/whatever today if you can't lay still. And a couple times he's gonna be very upset when you follow that through but it should work. But it will be more effective if you reward as much as possible rather than just give negative consequences. So every time you give tv/yummy snack/whatever you decided the consequence is make sure you say this is because you were so good laying still while we changed your clothes earlier. I'd say use a consistent consequence don't change it every time.

@Gymmum82 look, I don’t want to be rude here but I have three different professionals who have all advised that I am doing the right thing by persevering (and incidentally don’t think there are any additional needs at play.) You may not have meant it, but your post is really quite rude and I was a bit taken aback at it to be honest. Some children ‘get’ potty training immediately; some don’t. It took a while for him to crack wees and I carried on and I’m glad I did because he got it. Poo is taking longer. I’m not alone in this and he will get it, it really doesn’t mean he has autism

👍🏻

Anyway, I have just ordered a sticker chart. It’s a recent thing and it’s very silly but as posters have said, it’s gross but he doesn’t necessarily mean it that way. He has a baby sister who has been demanding a lot of attention lately as she’s not well so that’s not helping and as I pulled up to preschool I saw another child pushing him so I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s been holding back a lot and letting stupid behaviour out at home. I’ll make a big fuss of him this weekend and fob the grumpy baby on DH for a bit.