Really horrible problem, but desperate for help!

[Molesdigginholes]

DS is 3. Have been trying to toilet train him for a while, had success with wee but not with poo, he just soils himself.

My problem is when trying to clean him up he starts being really stupid. Not sure if through embarrassment but he starts giggling and trying to lean on me, not supporting his weight at all, roaming around and not standing still. This means poo ends up everywhere. He also sometimes puts his hands to his bottom and gets poo on them and wipes on me 🤢

The more annoyed I get the funnier he seems to find it so I need to approach this differently - but how?

First of all I would put him back in nappies (or pull ups preferably) at least then there’s not poo covered pants and trousers to deal with and if he does it when your out if possible go straight home. I wouldn’t be dealing with trying to clean it up when out and about if he has shown he can’t behave. so at the park or soft play oh well we need to go home what a shame. Then I would lift him straight into the bath and shower it off (not a cold shower just normal warm shower). No reaction at all, complete silence. Scream into a pillow afterwards but absolutely no reaction I think the main thing is rightly or wrongly he is enjoying the silliness of it so you need to take that away. And yes consequences that will matter. If he dicks about getting it done no tv time, favourite toy is gone etc and follow through as if your life depends on it.

this is of course if there’s no suspected SEN or sensory issues?

No advice if you're out and about but at home I'd just stick him straight in the shower (warm- not advising cold showers like previous!)try to be as businesslike as usual. Mine all went through a phase of being a bit tricky during nappy changes and that worked although would have been a bit younger.

Hadn't read the full post and I've written almost the same as you haha.

Then possibly he can't help it or is troubled in some way. I'd get some advice on how to draw that out of him.

Always great to come on here and get some support and know you are not judged 🙄

@MotherOfDragon20 has good advice

And @ohpumpkinseeds has good clean up tips

I would also be tempted to buy a big fancy toy, place it on the bathroom window/soft play floor/friends coffee table, and say 'you can have THAT if you help mummy clean you up nicely'. If he doesn't then the toy stays there. Talk really loudly and excitedly about the toy whilst you're sorting him out. But I'm a sucker for bribery in particularly tough situations!

Change him laying down like a baby? That way he can't wander around and get it everywhere. Give him something to occupy his hands that you know he enjoys and then if he starts the behaviour you don't want then you remove it until he does as you ask. At 3 he should be able to understand that this is not ok.
Has he got any SEN? I used to look after a little boy who would do this and other times would smear it over the cubicle walls if he was left alone to toilet, it was a sensory thing.

Err what the hell?!

The Op seems not to understand that she is the one in charge!

Stand him in the bath, give him a pack of wet wipes and tell him he's not leaving the bath till he's clean? No attention beyond stopping him from getting out. No toys, no play, no reaction. "No, you need to clean your mess." If he decides to wipe shit on stuff it's all wipe able and he's not leaving the bath till it's done. You could be there two hours the first time. Don't let him see that you care though. He'll get bored, he does it because he thinks it's funny, make it boring.

You've done amazing to keep your cool this far, this would push me right over the edge.

Absolutely I am in charge. I can and do parent reasonably well most of the time. But faced with a wriggling, silly poo smeared child in a confined space - yes, I am seeking help!

Love the toy idea. Going to give that a try, DS is better with carrots than sticks.

you'll put him under a cold shower to wash him off

That’s abuse @cheeseandketchupsandwich

Can you not insist he lies down on a change mat while you sort him out. You may have more chance of controlling him.

Back to nappies and wait awhile, sounds awful

It sounds like he's enjoying getting a reaction. Don't react, just keep talking normally. Try the laying him down strategy, ir have him bed down to touch the floor, maybe sing a song to distract him. The thing to remember op is it's not malicious it's just some attention seeking, likely because he's missed you whilst at nursery. Maybe before enough change him say 'let's get this done quickly so we can go and do something fun together'. Or give him and important job like passing you a wet wipe from the pack, or holding a nappy bag open to put the poopy clothes in.

He is doing quite well with wees and HV recommends no nappies.

This is wise and compassionate thank you.

My DS went through phases like this and I dealt with it by being really calm and boring (a bit like the grey rock!) until he became really bored with it. Now he is really into slime and play dough instead, which is at least more hygienic and less stinky!

You SERIOUSLY think this is an appropriate way to toilet train a child? You should be ashamed of yourself. This method was used many years ago, it’s abusive and what terrible advice to give to a mum who’s struggling.

Even splashing cold water on a child is awful.

@cheeseandketchupsandwich tried to minimise their post by posting this Oh good lord. I made it clear I didn't actually mean a cold shower, read the fucking post

I’m disgusted that anyone would give advice to splash a child with cold water to toilet train them.

There have been some good suggestions here. I think your revulsion at the poo might be over-riding the way you would naturally cope with difficult behaviour so you become increasingly upset and he feels excited at provoking such a strong reaction. It's a big ask but if you can make it clear how you want this to go with whatever reward if he does what you've said, treat him with utter calm/non-reaction when he starts messing about combined with immediate verbal praise for doing anything remotely like what you have asked him (e.g.if he stands still for a second) it might get you through this. Good luck. As others have said it might be him acting out after a tiring day having to be good. My angelic dd turned into an absolute harpy after starting reception.

Oh, and it won't last forever. In six months time you will remember it as a trying few weeks of your life.

Ignore him. Sing or chatter so he isn’t trying to get your attention. No eye contact.

Put him in the bath and do it there. Have the door closed and everything you need to hand.

put him in clothes that are fast to sort.

Put things in his hands to keep them busy- the next nappy, the wipes, the bags- I’m reluctant to suggest food but maybe a beaker.

A jar of Maltesers on the top to give him one for when he’s finished and you’ve washed hands etc. Must be a jar so he can see them. Smarties are prettier.

Go back to doing him on the floor, in the smallest room you have so he can’t get up- hold his ankles up. Again fill his hands- a book? A squeaker? A fiddle toy if some kind. Get a selection of special squeaky blowy toys that you save for the occasion. One of those party blower things, for example. A bazooka.

Lots of praise about good boys having nice clean bottoms and being ready to have a sweetie. Obviously the more mess, the longer the clean up so the longer the wait.

etc.

@PurpleClovers worked for my SIL 🤷🏽‍♀️