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Original poster

Ex DP burnt my baby

177 replies

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 17/08/2023 22:53

Hi all,

Some of you many remember me from my pp 'am I being unreasonable to reduce contact with ex mil'

Backstory- ex walked out on me when 8m pregnant, he was 'too stressed' as he thought I'm too anxious, I was anxious about how unhelpful and unkind and often unsafe and un thoughtful he was being which escalated during pregnancy.

He is not a risk averse person at all or a future planner, and doesn't go out of his way to inform himself of safety related things to eg read books about caring for a new born, he is also v arrogant and thinks his views are best eg ex doesn't wear suncream and is consistently sun burnt, doesn't have savings just wastes money etc etc.

(Bore off any 'why do women have babies with these men' posters please, I know, and also he was lovely charming and acted kind for a year before this all started)

I have been consistently giving him supervised by me Access to form a relationship with baby, despite my stress and heartbreak from breakup, and based on pp advice I had just started to feel comfortable that baby knows him and is happy to be with him, so he has done 4-5 outings with him alone (or somethings with his own mother too) with baby. It has been good to get a tiny bit of 'me time' finally in the week.

When he takes him out I remind him of everything I know he might forget like make sure you use straps if he's in a high chair, make sure you keep him out of direct sun or use the suncream I've packed, don't forget he is rolling over very quickly now so be careful if on high surfaces etc etc (to anyone who says this is too much- he literally doesn't think of stuff like this unless he's told and has no experience with babies other than visits to our son, I'd also rather patronize the ex than risk the baby is injured)

However, this week, my worst nightmare, 10 mins after ex took baby out I get a call that he has spilt a hot drink all over baby I can hear him screaming and crying. I tell him what to do first aid wise and rush to the cafe. Its awful looking hot red all over side and leg - I have to cuddle baby and put him back under cold tap (ex had taken him out after only 5 mins despite me saying keep him there) and got my dad to take him to hospital (ex obviously doesn't have a safe car seat installed). Thankfully it wasn't serious burn and he is ok (but clingy) today but he could have been so so badly injured.

Now - what do I do??? How can I ever feel safe leaving my baby with this moron again? I feel so guilty I didn't remind him this time about hot drinks but I can't preempt every thing- as he gets bigger it could be a road or a dangerous dog or a fireplace or something else scary and dangerous that he just wouldn't notice. Do I need to be there? (I hate spending time with the ex) How long until children are sensible enough in themselves I imagine not until around 7 years? Should I insist he is supervised by someone I think is sensible? Would that be seen as unreasonable? What would you all do in this situation?

He isn't on the BC so doesn't have parental responsibility at the moment.

OP posts:
Original poster
Unexpectedlysinglemum · 18/08/2023 09:46

Totalwasteofpaper · 18/08/2023 08:34

Honestly i would....

  • Write a factual email explaining why you are stopping contact includong other examples of neglient care and unsafe behaviour.
  • File your CMA claim
  • Stop all contact
  • Let him take you to court for access

Presumably you told the hospital his father did it. I would report it to SS as well if they havent already.

I get being a single parent is hard and its nice to have a break but i would not want thisan within a mile of my child.

Yes I made sure the hospital noted who was with him when it happened

OP posts:
Original poster
Unexpectedlysinglemum · 18/08/2023 09:47

Themuffintop · 18/08/2023 08:33

What happens WHEN your child has an accident under your watch?

Kids fall down stairs / tumble off slides / spill hot things / fall over stuff / roll off things / eat stuff. Will YOU go on a parenting course when something happens? Should your child be removed from you?

Get a grip.

It's been nearly 7 months 24/7 with me and nothings happened, probably 5th or 6th time ex has had him alone and this happens...

OP posts:
Original poster
Unexpectedlysinglemum · 18/08/2023 09:49

Fraaahnces · 18/08/2023 08:32

Also, the online FA courses are utter shite. It’s very easy to skip through them and get the basic info you need to pass the test. They’re also largely geared for adults and he doesn’t seem smart enough to anticipate issues with your child’s safety or how to associate differences and similarities. (Ie car seat.)

As for him coming around all the time. It’s working(ish) now, but what about when/if you get a new partner? You’re not going to want him under your feet, making “his” territory. It’s too intrusive for you and not realistic for your baby.

Just responded to this in long post.

Thank you I agree in person course that I did good i had already told him to do one like that before this incident - I think he was probably looking for a soon available one (more easy to find those online) but will tell him to go an in person one too

OP posts:

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Original poster
Unexpectedlysinglemum · 18/08/2023 09:51

Zanatdy · 18/08/2023 08:20

Everyone saying cut contact forever - this is really not in the child’s best interests long term to cut contact with a father who wants to be involved. By all means insist on supervised access when the child is a baby, but you can’t just ban the father from seeing the child completely. Accidents happen, I know a few people whose baby had quite a serious preventable accident when under 12months, but no-one banned them from contact with their child. I’d suggest parenting courses, in person first aid and supervise contact. If you don’t want him around you insist on a contact centre.

I am thinking ahead now though, at each age there are different danger when he is a toddler he can tip heavy things over, then run into roads or out of a playground, then go on unsafe websites etc ... ugh!

OP posts:
Original poster
Unexpectedlysinglemum · 18/08/2023 09:52

babyproblems · 18/08/2023 07:58

I’d cut all contact. What good would this father bring to your babies life? I can’t see any. If I were you I would cut all contact on safeguarding concerns. Genuinely interested to know what benefits having him in your child’s life would bring to your child?

You could continue some supervised visits but I don’t see the point.. he sounds beyond hopeless. If he was on any kind of pathway I would perhaps hope for change but from your post I think he’s not ever going to be capable..

I replied to this in longer update just now sorry didn't tag!

OP posts:
Wife2b · 18/08/2023 09:57

babyproblems · 18/08/2023 07:58

I’d cut all contact. What good would this father bring to your babies life? I can’t see any. If I were you I would cut all contact on safeguarding concerns. Genuinely interested to know what benefits having him in your child’s life would bring to your child?

You could continue some supervised visits but I don’t see the point.. he sounds beyond hopeless. If he was on any kind of pathway I would perhaps hope for change but from your post I think he’s not ever going to be capable..

This is disgusting and so entitled. What on earth will her son think when he grows up and learns that the reason he doesn’t have his father in his life because of an accident?

Wife2b · 18/08/2023 10:06

Rosscameasdoody · 18/08/2023 08:06

So despite everything the OP has told us about her ex being arrogant, unthinking and a risk taker, and that he has to be constantly reminded of important safety precautions, you think she should continue to provide unsupervised contact ? Despite the fact that her doubts have been borne out by this accident waiting to happen.

Show quote history

I don’t think I referenced it being unsupervised? She shouldn’t cut his contact is what I said. He’s booked onto a training course, it’s a good sign. He wants regular contact every week which is also a good sign. He needs a lot of support for the benefit of the child to have his father in his life. He doesn’t sound malicious, just naive and uneducated - both are factors that are workable.

JusthereforXmas · 18/08/2023 10:53

Rosscameasdoody · 18/08/2023 08:59

What thread are you on, because it clearly isn’t this one ?

Show quote history

Im on the thread where a child was accidentally burned with a hot drink and giving real life experience related to that... what thread do you think you are on?

PuddlesPityParty · 18/08/2023 11:27

SoSad44 · 18/08/2023 05:46

@PuddlesPityParty chill! The Op’s opening post is super long, I missed it. People make mistakes you know. Now go and have a coffee

oh so you thought cba reading the OP, I’ll just write a ridiculous comment then double down on it? I think it’s quite obvious any half decent mother would seek medical attention for a baby in these circumstances. It’s not hard to read one post.

BertieBotts · 18/08/2023 21:33

What is frustrating is this guy is SO good at video games where there are hazards etc and really focuses on them and spots them quickly why can't he do it in real life

A video game is not real life, there is instant real time feedback for ignoring hazards as in your character is likely to get hurt or lose life. When you do these things you can just reload the level, start a new match, or take a health potion and carry on - he probably does hit all the risks and hazards the first time he plays through a level/new game, that's how you learn. It's also a very specific limited area that he is focusing on directly. And, it's a computer. Everything is extremely predictable. Real life is not like any of this.

Risk and hazard in the real world is not the same which is why most people are very bad at risk assessment and some people are absolutely terrifying at it. 9/10 or 99/100 (depending on the risk) you can do the risky thing and nothing bad will happen. This leads people to think "It's fine, what are you worried about, nothing happened last time". You can drive thousands of miles without a seatbelt and nothing will happen to you until the one day that you crash.

I have ADHD, and I don't think ADHD is a barrier to being a good parent, but it is known to cause problems with risk perception to the point that untreated, unmanaged ADHD actually increases risk of accidental death (link) which shows you if anything else that you are not imagining such a link, considering it's strong enough to show up in a statistic. FAS is associated here too, though I don't know enough about that to find any relevant info. (The increased risk is death of the person, not of people they are looking after, there's not enough info on that.)

But regardless this is not to say that it matters why something is happening, but what the outcome is, I know plenty of excellent, average, whatever parents with ADHD who are absolutely not a danger to their children, and if basically the outcome is that you can't trust him with your child's safety then I would do everything in my power to insist on supervised contact. When children are older it is less of a concern but it still exists.

It's not a completely unknown pattern, I've lost count of the threads I've seen about this issue, I don't mean they are every week or something, but the pattern is common enough, it's always the same, he thinks the mother is an insanely over anxious control freak when she just has normal sane boundaries, meanwhile he is completely gobsmackingly lax, there is a pattern of injuries and accidents over the years, or the thread is posted at that horrific point where a child has had a life changing accident. Those are some of the worst threads I have ever read on this forum. YES, accidents can and do happen to everyone, but there are also simple things that you can do to drastically reduce the chances of them happening and/or reduce how bad they are when they do happen. When someone is not doing those things - it's a huge issue. And there IS a pattern.

Did you know for example, that statistically there is a very large correlation between the group of people who partake in risky driving behaviour (texting, drinking, speeding, driving erratically) and people who do not use car seats for their children? Unrestrained children are overrepresented in crash death statistics, partially because if you crash and your child is not in a car seat, that is going to be very bad for them, but ALSO, because children who are not travelling in car seats usually have parents occupying both groups, so are much more likely to be involved in a crash in the first place, so they get increased risk from both sides.

Reduced Life Expectancy in ADHD

Russell Barkley, PhD, discusses the enormity of the health consequences and early mortality associated with ADHD. The range and likely mechanism of long-term effects of ADHD are discussed, and we examine the role of assertive treatment in childhood and...

https://www.thecarlatreport.com/articles/3096-reduced-life-expectancy-in-adhd

Original poster
Unexpectedlysinglemum · 18/08/2023 22:46

@BertieBotts thanks you for that interesting and informative reply that really helps me understand the video game part of it! And I think also might help me with some of the conversation I'll have to have with him about my concerns about his safety assessment abilities

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 19/08/2023 07:45

Oh you've just reminded me of an argument we had pre baby and pre break up when he said he thought all this sterilizing was ridiculous and it would be better for baby to have exposure to some germs to build an immune system. NOT FOR A NEW BORN YOU WOULD KNOW THIS IF YOU LISTENED TO ACTUAL EXPERTS OR READ A BOOK ABOUT BABIES I replied.

@Unexpectedlysinglemum
Again, you need to stop contact.

This man is an arrogant twat whose ego can't bear the idea that anyone else knows more than he does.

Your baby is in danger while with him.

JusthereforXmas · 19/08/2023 09:25

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 18/08/2023 00:37

Oh you've just reminded me of an argument we had pre baby and pre break up when he said he thought all this sterilizing was ridiculous and it would be better for baby to have exposure to some germs to build an immune system. NOT FOR A NEW BORN YOU WOULD KNOW THIS IF YOU LISTENED TO ACTUAL EXPERTS OR READ A BOOK ABOUT BABIES I replied.

Show quote history

To play devil advocate a lot of countries including large portions of the USA do not sterilize, even those that do do to a far lower extent than the UK.

Now as a person with a degree in microbiology and mother I always do and would recommend everyone does (why take a risk). However its not actually that common in the rest of the world. The 332 million strong American population haven't bee culled off by washing but not sterilizing (they also have far riskier water supplies than ours in many areas too).

While you can disagree with him its not as wildly stupid and out there a suggestion as you are making out and there are 'experts' in other countries argue that its actually as waste of time.

BertieBotts · 19/08/2023 12:04

The UK has a belt and braces approach to infant formula safety - you wash thoroughly AND sterilise AND make up with hot water AND feed immediately (OR store in fridge) AND wash your hands AND wash the area that you prepare the formula AND use clean utensils (clean knife to level/using only the scoop and leveller provided) AND discard undrunk formula after 1 hour AND rinse out bottles before cleaning rather than leaving them around for days etc. (Some of this is common sense, not explicit guidance).

Does everyone do all of those things every time? No, probably not. But the more of them you do, the more you reduce the risks. And if you're skimping on things like washing hands, washing the bottles quickly etc then it's more important to sterilise. Definitely not a good idea to expose a newborn to germs.

The US advice is more lax relating to powdered formula but they do also advise to feed ready-made only to babies under 4 weeks when possible, which reduces a lot of the risks relating to potential contamination of powder.

Original poster
Unexpectedlysinglemum · 19/08/2023 12:32

@JusthereforXmas I guess the difference is your opinion is coming from an educated informed open minded research based perspective.
His will be because he read once that families with dogs get less coughs and colds or something like that so he has over generalized his germs are good opinion and thinks he therefore knows better than the nhs and nct.

OP posts:
Original poster
Unexpectedlysinglemum · 19/08/2023 12:34

@JusthereforXmas if someone with your expertise decided not to sterilize every time I would trust that you've taken steps to ensure that's a safe decision

OP posts:
Yalta · 19/08/2023 15:23

This is disgusting and so entitled. What on earth will her son think when he grows up and learns that the reason he doesn’t have his father in his life because of an accident?

It isn’t just one accident.

It is many many accidents waiting to happen because the df doesn’t see danger.
His brain whether because of Neuro Diversity or that he just does not see that somethings are dangerous

I am sure it has a medical name. Where someone has an almost mental blindness to consequences. Whether that is doing something dangerous themselves, or being surprised they are being made homeless because they didn’t pay their mortgage for months because they spent the money on going clubbing and eating out. Or having so little awareness of what a baby might do if sat on a table next to a hot cup of coffee.

But worse of all is his arrogance in thinking he knows better than any baby book or the nhs or any expert on child rearing and although he says he is going to do an online first aid course, that course is more about trying to put right something that shouldn’t have happened in the first place.
Yet because of his stance on things he won’t take a course of learning how to not get into the position where he needs the first aid training

Yalta · 19/08/2023 15:57

I think there are many many relationships that have children where one parent would love to divorce/split up but won’t because the other parent has such a lack of awareness of dangers and doesn’t see consequences

These parents won’t put toddlers in reins because they don’t see the need because as an adult they wouldn’t run into traffic so it doesn’t cross their mind that their 2 year old might.

The others parents are unhappy, trapped in miserable relationships because the alternative is unthinkable

MzHz · 19/08/2023 17:55

An accident waiting to happen is not a valid reason to sever relationships between a child and their parent.

this is an experience that @Unexpectedlysinglemum can use to really show why he needs to think more about safety and the baby than he is doing now. He can learn and was probably shocked by what happened AND did exactly the right thing in the situation AND called mum.

a cup of coffee pulled onto a baby is a very common accident, as are burns from hair straighteners. The guilt parents feel when their child is accidentally burnt is indescribable

mothers AND fathers go through this and blaming each other for a lapse of concentration isn’t helpful to anyone

the baby in this situation was unharmed. Thank god. I know what the bad looks like in this situation.

Let’s keep that in mind and hope that @Unexpectedlysinglemum talks to her ex to make it work better long term to help keep the baby safer going forward

Ihaveamagicwand · 20/08/2023 01:24

Unexpectedlysinglemum

It’s good that your ex is going to do a first aid course but you really need him to look at accident prevention.

There are two brilliant organizations who can help. They are the Child Accident Prevention Trust (capt.org.uk) and the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents (rospa.org.uk). If you only choose one, I’d suggest capt as it’s more specific to your needs. Their webpages are excellent and can really help identify risks.

Now is the time to really press home the importance of not getting to the point of having to use his first aid knowledge.

mathanxiety · 20/08/2023 04:37

JusthereforXmas · 19/08/2023 09:25

To play devil advocate a lot of countries including large portions of the USA do not sterilize, even those that do do to a far lower extent than the UK.

Now as a person with a degree in microbiology and mother I always do and would recommend everyone does (why take a risk). However its not actually that common in the rest of the world. The 332 million strong American population haven't bee culled off by washing but not sterilizing (they also have far riskier water supplies than ours in many areas too).

While you can disagree with him its not as wildly stupid and out there a suggestion as you are making out and there are 'experts' in other countries argue that its actually as waste of time.

Show quote history

Popping the bottles in the dishwasher for a hot wash is often done in the US, and there are lots of purpose built steriliser kits available.

Titfortat78 · 20/08/2023 12:42

No never on a table a highchair or sitting them on my knee facing me yes. I have seen babies placed on table's in cafe's and thought how stupid. Especially if the table they were placed on wasn't particularly sturdy.

Original poster
Unexpectedlysinglemum · 20/08/2023 16:08

Ihaveamagicwand · 20/08/2023 01:24

Unexpectedlysinglemum

It’s good that your ex is going to do a first aid course but you really need him to look at accident prevention.

There are two brilliant organizations who can help. They are the Child Accident Prevention Trust (capt.org.uk) and the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents (rospa.org.uk). If you only choose one, I’d suggest capt as it’s more specific to your needs. Their webpages are excellent and can really help identify risks.

Now is the time to really press home the importance of not getting to the point of having to use his first aid knowledge.

These are both really helpful thank you I will send them both to him

OP posts:
Original poster
Unexpectedlysinglemum · 20/08/2023 16:30

Thank you everyone.
Baby is absolutely fine now thank goodness - clingy the next day but skin back to normal and happy boy again now!

I'm taking baby on holiday (without ex obviously) this week so I have some thinking time. Everyone seems to be in three camps

  • cut off all contact until he goes to court,
  • still let them see each other but ensure someone safe is supervising it, and
  • these things happen you'll do it too he'll feel bad and extra careful not just remind him
To be careful and let him learn on the job.

I guess now I'm thinking what I would be able to explain to my baby when he's older. I don't think I could cut him out entirely over this (as much as i dislike the guy) he's still the only father he's got and he does love him and baby does have a right to know him, plus I don't ban other stupid people like my cousin who would have no clue how to look after kids from meeting him or being around him (but I don't leave them alone together!)

I also don't currently feel that baby is safe to be left alone with him as baby is only going to get more grabby at stuff and try to swallow everything as he starts to walk and crawl. Trial and error might work with video games as a pp described but there is no margin for error with injuries to babies!

Re the comments that I'll have an accident myself one day, I hear that, but I've managed for 6 months not to have a serious one (please may that continue!) as I try to think and foresee things and this guy has an accident on his 5th ish outing alone with baby so I don't feel it's a coincidence and it's lucky it wasn't worse. I couldn't look baby in the eye when he's older and say I trusted the person he was with entirely if he had another accident that scarred or permanently injured baby or worse.

It's very frustrating as we had been working towards ex taking baby for one day a week so that I could do a bit of work /me time and when I go back properly if that doesn't happen this will hugely increase nursery bill, so I'm definitely not looking for reasons to cut them off as some pp suggested what I would love is a magic wand to make ex sensible!

What I might explore is them going into a stay and play for babies at local children's centre together as I know this is a very baby safe environment, after I have done enough supervised visits to see if I have regained any confidence. I will also have a conversation with him without baby there to try and work out what he's learned from this and see if he's read the link from the children's accident prevention charity. I will probably have to change nursery to an extra day a week for now to ensure I have the place when I go back to work.

Thanks everyone x

OP posts:
Mmhmmn · 07/10/2023 13:12

How can I ever feel safe leaving my baby with this moron again?

You can't, unless/until he dramatically improves over time.

I feel so guilty I didn't remind him this time about hot drinks but I can't preempt every thing- as he gets bigger it could be a road or a dangerous dog or a fireplace or something else scary and dangerous that he just wouldn't notice.

You're right, you can't possibly expect to preempt everything that could go wrong.

Do I need to be there? (I hate spending time with the ex)

Yes

How long until children are sensible enough in themselves I imagine not until around 7 years?

WAY older than that. More like 17

Should I insist he is supervised by someone I think is sensible?

Yes

Would that be seen as unreasonable?

It's clearly not unreasonable given what's happened if he's an idiot in general and this wasn't a one-off.

What would you all do in this situation?

Insist on yourself or a responsible adult being with them to supervise his contact. Maybe don't use the word 'supervise' .. just explain you're worried. If at your house you could supervise from a distance?
Things do happen with babies but atm you can't trust him to keep DS safe.