Trauma or Autism or neither.

[StrugglesSadness]

Firstly, I apologize for the length.

My son first started displaying worrying behaviour when he was 1.5. Flying into a rage & not being able to calm down for hours & hours. By 3, I asked for help, I did parenting courses & learned he suffers from anxiety.

Sister born.

Age 4 me & his dad split up. He was was still around a lot, we still had family days out. My son witnessed some shouting between us. It wasn't all harmonious.

By the age of 6 the behaviour had turned violent towards myself. I'm walking on eggshells. Anything sets him off. A Caff was opened. Anxiety was noted. Advice like 'Just walk away' leading me to wander around the house carrying my 2 year old, for hours. Exhausting myself & being attacked constantly from behind.

Covid. Home schooling, if my son can see the work there on the laptop, then he has to get it done. He won't have a break or rest if he can see work there.

Age 8 2nd Caff opened. This Support worker put all of the blame on myself & I agree. Support worker tells me not to cry in front of my son as it 'Makes him think that I am weak'. I am weak.

Behaviour is now absolutely horrendous. Leaving the home, extreme violence. Talks about wanting to kill himself. Gets hold of knives & uses anything he can as weapons. My heart is breaking for my son. Violence extends to his sister.

This lovely school worker mentions Autism & PDA. (She has left now. Beyond gutted) Maybe I can finally make things better for my son... Support worker is having none of it. Constantly tells me that meltdowns are happening because my son is 'Tired/hungry/bored/it's normal' Etc. Etc.

I complain to her manager & ask for the Caff to be closed if that's all the help she's going to be. Caff has been opened for a year & a half, we get a new support worker & keep it open.

New worker is on board with the 'Possible autism'. Tells me it's not my fault.
School is a bit... 'There's a few things going on but nothing of much concern, however, we are concerned re his behaviour at home. (Also, sister is crying in class & tells them that he hurts her)

so (almost done!) Here we are now. We are having family therapy sessions & the therapist has decided that my son is suffering from trauma due to his dad leaving, & that it's nothing like autism. He's dropped this bombshell on me.

I'm not sure where to go from here. When I google, there's clearly overlaps between autism/Trauma. How do I know which one it is? (If it's any) what do I do?

Obviously the thought of my son walking around traumatised is just horrendous. How can I help him? Surely if it's trauma then he needs counselling or something?

I know that nobody on here can actually tell me, I just feel so lost.

A couple of after thoughts - google joint compressions. This technique can be used to help centre him before becoming too upset. If walking or other sensory things fail to calm him, remove yourself and your dd immediately as soon as he starts to hurt you. Go out of sight and behind a locked door if necessary to stay safe. He will get bigger and stronger over time so it’s best to create clear routines now.

it might be an idea to take him to the park after school each day. Give him refreshments and time to unwind

Hearti We go to the park once a week after school. One day is after school club, one day is therapist (if he turns up) & every other Friday they go to their dads so that works out plenty. We always have the back door open as long as it's not freezing & they have bike/scooter/garden toys (although that presents me with another challenge as I have to quickly shut & lock the door when a meltdown starts to prevent him from running off) but we are an outdoorsy sort of family. One of his favourite things to do outside is cut the grass with a small pair of scissors. He can spend hours doing that.

We can't really go for a walk once he starts getting upset as he will run off.

For a long time, I tried shutting myself in my bedroom with my daughter & letting him have the run of the house, but he would be absolutely furious with rage on the other side of the door. He got the door off the hinges (no locks on the doors as it's a rented house & there's no doors downstairs, all open-plan)

& Also he would absolutely trash the house, broke the window lock & started playing with the gas oven & it just wasn't worth the risk, (also not fair on my daughter listening to him threatening to murder her on the other side of the door) so I changed it to once he's hurt me 'enough', I put him in his room & hold the door shut. He still gets angry & his bedroom door is currently hanging by the top hinge, BUT the damage is contained in one room. He has his teddy's, blankets, books to calm himself if he needs them. It just seems to work better as it's a smaller space but it's still big enough for him to charge about a little if that's what he needs.

Coventry grid maps out which makes it trauma which makes it autism

Thank you so much Namechangeforthispostpurpose That's really helpful

Some of that on the trauma side is difficult to read isn't it. It honestly makes me wonder what exactly the therapist is seeing that I'm clearly not seeing.

The words at the beginning 'Child has had a very difficult early life or serious abuse or trauma' are difficult to read. Therapist seems to think that applies to my kids though.

So I've read through all of it & found myself nodding along to 90% of the Autism column, The one about Makes noise for personal pleasure eg barking... My son is regularly barking, making animal noises loudly, it makes other people stare, he does it coming home from school & younger kids will copy him but he doesn't notice (he's not doing it for a reaction)

There were 2 on the trauma side which are definitely my son... Deliberately destroy's possessions when angry.

And Gentle teasing may provoke extreme distress... This is absolutely my son.

It's made me feel a little angry tbh, like how I started this thread, that the therapist thinks my kids are suffering so much through all of this apparent trauma & what exactly is he doing to help? Just dropping this bombshell on me & not even managing to stick this his weekly appointments.

I only told my son yesterday that therapists appointment has been changed next week. Cue a whole load of questions about why & the most important one... 'You said that you & Support worker were going to get him to agree to the next 3 in a row & then they wouldn't change'.

All there was to say to that was 'We did. We had 3 all set, but then he changed one'.

I'm sorry you're having a hard time.

I'm also experienced in trauma and autism and I have to give an alternative opinion to some of those shared here, which are disturbing to read and would cause some children and adults with trauma and/or autism a huge amount of damage. You sound well-informed enough that you wouldn't go that path, but I would hate anyone reading to think these are healthy approaches to inflict upon young children.

Working with an experienced psychologist would be much more helpful. It's such a shame, although not unusual, that your first therapist isn't a good fit. I hope you're able to get better assessments and support soon, it sounds like you're doing such a great job under very difficult circumstances.

School can bring in an educational psychologist, Speech therapist and occupational therapist to offer more support around his needs. Does he need more work done on emotional regulation? Does he ‘mask’ this at school and bring it all home?

in terms of parental blame, Luke Clements has some research which may be useful when dealing with professionals.

Is he currently waiting for assessment? If not, go to your Gap and get a referral. Do you get DLA - you should try applying for it - there are organisations that help support you.

the PDA society is a good source of info for how you need to parent differently when your child has PDA. My thinking is that trauma can also develop when an autistic child is not getting the support that they need. When professsionals are telling you you just need to be former with boundaries etc, rather than how to parent your child with needs, this makes the situation even worse.

I'm confused about what 'trauma' they're suggesting it is.

The problem is that for some children with autism (and certainly with pda) the world is very traumatic. They can be in a constant state of anxiety which in some can be anger, over things that do not worry others.

He sounds similar to some of the children I teach in a send school.

However this is not healthy for you or your daughter- he's going to get bigger. If you can push for all the assessments possible I would asap.

Thank you SummerSun If I say anything alarming or worrying you can say, I don't mind, I'm only learning about all this so doubt I get it right most of the time.

I'm a shy, socially awkward person myself but I've really made myself talk to my son's friends parents recently & the difference in how they live & we do is staggering. Things like they can just go to a new place, without having to make sure they have toys/books/snacks or whatever in their bag, in case their child isn't comfortable there. Also a back-up plan in case he really can't manage it. (I know you have those things for younger children but the general chat is now that they are 9/10 you can just go. Well they can)

Also they are starting swimming lessons at school soon so I've spent a small fortune taking my son to that pool for lessons so that he knows the place & has met the teacher etc, they havn't even given swimming a 2nd thought as their child will just go. (The first 3 times he clung to me, hid his face & refused to even look at the teacher until there was a whole lot of reassurance & explaining, by her & me, of what was going to happen)

And finally, changes at school, something that had a massive impact on my son, I mention it to these parents & they hadn't even realised it had happened, when it turned out world absolutely upside down until things went back to normal.

If this doesn't happen then this will happen'. highly anxious thinking and potentially ocd.

Reading more of your details I'd say from my experience teaching children with autism that he's very likely to be on the spectrum.

It sounds so tough, I'm so sorry

You are actually accommodating his needs hugely in way we would suggest for a child with autism. Preparing him for swimming etc. neurotypical children do not need this.

Your description of him as a toddler suggests he's started struggling then. Many toddlers can't come out of it but it's unusual for the lengths of time you describe. And hasn't developed further.

WarriorN From me & his dad splitting up. He did say to me in a text once something about 'Children who have witnessed domestic violence' so I said 'He never witnessed domestic violence?' & he just said 'Ok' which concerned me a bit as I hope that isn't on my file or something somewhere.

He is on the list for assessment since September & they've recently asked for more info which we are gathering now.

I agree that autism with a PDA profile is fitting. Masking at school is not unusual and I cannot believe there are STILL professionals out there who are not aware of this. It is beyond frustrating. PDA is complex. If possible, I would seek a private assessment with a psychologist that is familiar with this.

Hi OP. I'm autistic, have an autistic son and also work with autistic kids. Trauma is an interesting one. Inherently many autistic kids do suffer trauma - they process things differently. Also at this point, it doesn't matter whether he's autistic or suffering trauma as the behaviour is the same.
For what it's worth, it clearly sounds like your son is autistic.

He's at a school who seem to have zero understanding of him. My six year old was much like your son- the daily violence and meltdowns were horiffic. We moved him to a school who have a better understanding of autism and special needs. We had a meeting with the head teacher and basically said the school weren't meeting his needs and didn't believe the difficulties he was having.

The new school recognise his needs and interestingly he masks a lot less. His violence seems to be fading.

When my son has a meltdown and is hurting us/destroying things, we tend to hold him. He does shout at us to get off but we hold him until he's safe.

I have much more to say but have to make breakfast for the boys! I'll check back later.

Ps we got out a new credit card and paid 2k for the assessment. It has helped somewhat in that we now have some validity but actually, it hasn't changed anything.

Thank you Lucydoddledoo. I know what you mean about the behaviours going side by side, that makes perfect sense to me but the therapist isn't meaning that, he thinks that my son is just (not to minimise trauma at all) suffering from trauma, & if we were to sort out the trauma then there wouldn't be any autistic traits left.

The only thing that would change if he were to somehow get a diagnosis tomorrow, is that I can stop blaming myself, I can finally know what's been going on all these years instead of guessing, & I would have something to tell people when they ask me 'But why does he behave that way'? I know it's not a magic solution.

I can't hold my son during a meltdown unfortunately. He's just tooo violent. He headbutts & bites & it just isn't possible.

School is an interesting one as they have a fantastic team of LSA's there & they are really looking out for my son & seek me out at the end of the day to give me daily updates, & the Senco & head absolutely believe how bad things are at home. I believe that they do. There was a time when we had the last support worker & it was just myself & the Senco VS the world & she absolutely had my back... That said, now, they seem to be shrugging their shoulders saying 'We've given him all the extra support that's available right now'.

Warrior Yes, when he was little, everybody used to say 'All kids have tantrums' & I'd say 'Yes, but it's the length of time, all kids don't start a tantrum at breakfast & are still going at lunch do they?!'

Thank you imip Yes we've recently been approved for DLA. Assessment paperwork was sent off in September but they've asked for more information. Gutted that I can't add the therapists voice to this, because all he has to say is "It's all trauma, but go for the assessment if you want'.

Yes he absolutely needs more help with emotional regulation. It's all held in at school (or until the playground anyway)

You do need to find a way to protect yourself from the outbursts. For holding him we have to hold him in a way that he can't kick, hit, bite, spit or headbutt. It never looks pretty and he screams blue murder but currently it's the only way to.keep everyone safe and injury free.
Can you try to switch to a neuro affirming therapist? Sounds like she's lacking understanding.

I know Lucydoddledoo I just can't get the hang of how to hold him.

The therapist hasn't helped at all. I looked on his Linked In & there's no mention of Neuro anything & the other thing is he usually works with older kids (he's told me that himself) I don't know why anybody ever thought that this therapist would be a good fit for us. He said that he's used to coming into a home & talking to a teenager about their behaviour & developing strategies but with my son he can only talk about it to a point as it sends him into a meltdown & he's never going to agree to any strategies either as he just shuts down & shrugs.

Are you allowed to stop seeing this therapist? He sounds like a waste of time

That sounds all very familiar... ASD with PDA here. Of course there could be trauma too... but the trauma could be because his possible ASD/PDA needs are not being met.

It is far too easy to blame parents, and especially mothers. Children with PDA can be so capricious and changeable - I have seen my DC with this profile (world class masker) completely fool some very respected people (apparently experts in their field but not truly knowledgeable about PDA it turns out...) who should have known better. I also know so many mothers with children with PDA who have had all sorts of things thrown at them, attachment issues etc.

You are going to have to be incredibly proactive and forceful to get in front of a specialist in PDA and to make everyone else get on board - and they do need to.

Have you contacted the PDA society for help? They are incredible.

Would also agree with the PP that the diagnosis was most important in terms of validating what I had been telling everyone, teachers, headteachers etc. This meant that finally the people around my DC agreed to learn a little about PDA and put in place some adjustments. It was also incredibly important that my DC understood why they behaved the way they did. This played a part in reducing the anxiety.

However, it doesn't actually change the situation much. All the real work was with a coach and using PDA society resources. Finally, being in contact with other parents in the same situation continues to be a real support. It can be an incredibly lonely journey and is so, so isolating. I have never really shared what really goes on with my DC with even my closest friends with neurotypical children. They just don't get it and I don't think ever will.

Thank you Grimbelina I will contact the PDA society for help.

I know I probably come across as passive but I'm just having an incredible difficult time this past month or so. Everything has got on top of me & I've hit a wall. I told the support worker that I need everybody to leave me alone.

We had our latest Caff meeting & I sat there in silence. I couldn't communicate with them. I just did not have the emotional strength to fight anymore right now. (I cried the whole 20 min walk back from the meeting)

I agree, friends with NT children don't 'Get it'. Numerous instances of 'Just tell him to stop it'. So I don't talk to them about it anymore.

Yes, a diagnosis will give me a 'Finally. A reason'. Moment. (Or not, as of course the assessment could still say no. And that's fine too, then I'll know to push harder for some other help then)

Lucydoddledoo We have 6 sessions left (& tbh I'll be surprised if we have all 6 of those. Even my son said 'I bet he cancels one of those')

So it's just counting down until he's gone from our lives now. I will not be recommending this therapy to anybody at all. Ever. If they have to do it then they need family support & a partner so they aren't left to deal with all the crap alone once the therapist goes home at 5pm.

I'm trying to feel a little stronger & it's helping a little getting things out on here.

I have 'burned out' more than once over this and it sounds like this is where you are right now. Recognise this and try and find some ways of building yourself up again but it might be that the only thing you can do right now is prioritise your needs and health as much as is possible until you feel stronger. This is a marathon and not a sprint and your son needs you to advocate for him once you feel up to it. You don't sound passive as much as overwhelmed. Take good care. You aren't alone on this journey, even though it can feel that way.

If you look at the DSM5 you can see the criteria for diagnosing autism. This may be helpful to see if you can map your son’s behaviours. School getting an EP or speech therapist might add weight so that you can use a working assumption that your son is autistic. School can do this under the SEN code of practice. I assume he is on SEN support, not an EHCP.

Also (don’t take this the wrong way as I know some people do), you say you are shy and socially awkward. Do you think that perhaps you are autistic also? It is very hereditary and many parents realise they are autistic after their children are on the pathway. I have three autistic children - v likely dh and I are autistic. It is ADHD that causes trouble in my everyday life though!

imip I'll have a look. I would actually love my son to see a psychologist. He is on the SEN register, yes. We had a psychologist come to the home for 6 sessions but he only worked with me & not my son. He told me off about shutting him in his room but apart from that I thought the sessions went well.

I have considered that I may be, yes. I had problems with friendships at school & ended up going to a 'special' school for my last 2 years at high school. I was talking to my mum about it & she insists that nobody ever mentioned anything about me being ND, & I contacted the school to see if anything was on my records but they said I've left it too long & the records are gone. (It's in the back of my mind though)

Grimbelina Yea, that's probably it. Thank you for your kindness. I've never felt like this about it all before. The support worker said that I have an over-whelming need for people to 'Believe me' because of the past, & feeling like the therapist doesn't believe me (well, he doesn't!) Has thrown me. I agree with that.

I think actually most parents who have suspected something neurodiverse has been in this situation. It is not about you wanting ‘approval’ but simply validation that your child has additional needs that need to be assessed. Having been here with three children and now working in the field, each assessment has been hard fought for and I simply needed the validation.

My now 15yo we consider is PDA. I needed to be with her all the time as she was so violent and destructive. Never slept, school avoidance. Something ‘clicked’ during lockdown, she saw how diffficult autism was for her 5yr younger sister and much of the violence and constant 100% meltdown ended. It’s been replaced with an OCD type behaviours and still v demand avoidant. I just wanted to let you know that there can be hope - the demand avoidance ‘settled’ differently eg, we try to keep a healthy diet (one of my dc is former anorexic) she overeats deliberately and she says we have made her do it because we talk about healthy eating. It’s not a great situation still, but we don’t experience the violence we used to.

Thank you for sharing that about your daughter imip. I see what you mean. One behaviour changed for another, something to look out for. I'm sorry thing are still difficult for you.

Reading that reminded me of this thing my son does where he will be laughing about something one day & then it can be a few months later but mid-meltdown he will bring it up as this awful thing that he's really upset about. It's so difficult. (Eg he asked when I fed him solid food so I told him 7 months ish & he asked when nanny fed me solid food so I said 'Pretty much when I was born I think as she thinks I waited too long with you') I was laughing. Cue hysterical laughter from him & him doing impressions (he likes to act things out) of a tiny baby being fed a burger!

Then months later he's screaming at me 'Theres something wrong with me & it's your fault as you didn't feed me properly when I was a baby'.

That's exactly how it is isn't it. Validation. It's such a horrible position to be in. It makes me feel needy! Any time anybody sees some of the behaviour I want to shove a notepad in their hand & say 'Can you write that down please?!'