Do you ever wish your DC had a more “wholesome” childhood?

[Coffeecoffeeinmytummy]

Ok hear me out. I have two DC only 2 and 4. But I’m already a bit disappointed in how I’m bringing them up and wishing their childhood was a bit more wholesome. Does anyone else feel like this? Or have you made a conscious effort to try and do this?

Its hard to explain what I mean. The obvious one is too much screen time… they are both obsessed and it’s a constant negotiation. The youngest is already a marketer’s dream and wants any tat with Peppa/Bluey etc on it. Eldest would spend all day on the iPad if I let her. I kind of wish I never let them start using it, and I definitely wish that they didn’t know YouTube and on demand tv existed!

So yeah in an ideal world I’d like them to spend less time on screens and more time playing particularly outside. They’re both quite reluctant to play outside and just ask to come back in for tv. I’m not necessarily bothered about them doing “educational” stuff as they’re so little and of course we have loads of books and toys like puzzles or more open ended things but they gravitate towards plastic tat and screens. We went to a national trust place the other day and had a picnic and everything felt so much better and I thought “this is the kind of parent I thought I’d be!” 😂

Don’t even get me started on food. Youngest shrieks with delight at the McDonald’s sign from a mile off. I’d love to cook more with them but it’s a right PITA if I’m honest and I always have to summon the courage to do it. Eldest would live off pizza.

Anyone else feel like this?! I know there are bigger things to worry about but I’d love to spend my time with them playing and growing veg and being outdoors and going for walks instead of watching Disney and eating sugary crap.

That's an option too. Saying no is a good thing to do. It seems many don't though.

I never had a problem with some TV. Almost everything is educational to an extent and, if it isn't, we all need down time to just relax and enjoy. Kids too.

They're only 2 & 4, it's not too late?! You sound like you've given up on your ideals but they're still so young!

We live pretty rurally and have a garden so I can see why it may not be so easy for those who don't. Agree with PPs it's all about balance. Mine love being outside but can equally be glued to screens at times. Same with food/meals, mine love fruit, veg, nice meals but they also craze me for love sweets, fast food, etc.

There's lots I'd change about the way I parent mine, nobody is perfect. However I'm also very proud of them and how they're turning out which is either because of our parenting or in spite of it or both haha.

Sorry, having just read all of your updates ignore my initial comment. Sounds like you're doing just fine imo! 🙂

Sorry but this is excuses. I also have no family locally and both of us work FT and so are busy and tired. Does my 4yo have an iPad? No. My son had probably been to Maccy D’s twice IN HIS WHOLE LIFE.

You have received loads of good advice on this thread. Start following it.

People are really weird about screen time on here.
There's nothing wrong with a bit of TV.
I think people who have a strong issue with a small age-appropriate amount of television are the minority.

Most threads on her about screen time aren't along the lines of "is it the end of the world of my 5 year old watches a small amount cbeebies each day?"

They're usually about children who have (and have had from a young age) so much screen time across a range of devices that it's causing an issue, either in terms of behaviour, tantrums or addictive behaviour. They're posters describing how when they say "no" to their child's preferred screen time, their young child likes, the child becomes emotional/angry/frustrated/has a tantrum. So the screen time is usually causing a problem to the poster.

For some reason saying to another parent "if you don't want your preschoolers on a device, don't give them it" seems to cause other parents to get quite twitchy. It's not controversial though. There's nothing inevitable about plugging young children into devices to get through life.

Here are the world Health guidelines:

• Infant (less than 1 year of age): Screen time is not recommended.
• 1-2 years of age: No screen time for a 1-year-old. No more than an hour for 2-year-olds, with less time preferred.
• 3 to 4 years old: No more than one hour.

@Angelil erm did you not see my latest post? Ps. 4 year old does not “have an iPad”, I have an iPad which she asks to use. Not the same thing IMO. But I do know several kids her age who have their own tablet and who have pretty much unrestricted access to it, and that’s not what I wanted for my DC.

Another poster recommended that I remove the stuff I’m not happy with and I thought that was a helpful way of looking at it. The first one for me is YouTube. Eldest doesn’t have unsupervised access to it but we have the app on our smart tv and she asks for particular videos. I’m going to struggle to convince DH and also DM about this because we don’t have Disney+ and so YouTube is the only way she can watch any of the songs from frozen/moana/encanto and she really loves them. Does anyone have any ideas of how we could let her sometimes watch these without it being via YouTube? Even when it’s supervised I don’t like the ads etc.

I’m also going to really cut down on McDs from twice a month to maybe twice a year. However I don’t want it to be called a treat so will consciously avoid that.

I agree with pp that character books are fairly harmless in principle but while we are cutting down on tv I think I will hide them a bit as it makes them as for the programmes. I’ll ask the grandparents to avoid buying more. Youngest has quite a few figures/toys etc but I’m ok with them as she plays quite creatively with them and doesn’t ask for tv.

I’m not going to cut out all tv altogether but going to chat with DH about which programmes are ok. Generally CBeebies seems quite benign and a lot of what my eldest chooses to watch is actually educational eg number blocks. But some pps suggested removing on demand tv or only having it at certain times which I think might be a good shout.

I’m definitely going to set up a toy rotation system to encourage more play although I did try this previously and I found it too much of a faff to maintain so I need to try again. We have a lot of family who we visit who don’t have young children so we take a bag of our own toys with us and I’m always amazed at how much more deeply the kids play with the toys because they only have a few options. I will try to do this with books as well because we do have an excessive amount (yes it’s possible to let your kids watch too much tv while also having 300 kids books in the house!).

Going to also try to spend a bit of money making the garden a more appealing place to play - I’m thinking sandpit and Wendy house? There’s not much out there at the moment.

The main challenge will be getting my DH on board with all of this as he has the kids on his own one day a week while I’m working and he also often does the early morning wake ups. He actually suggested starting to let the 4 year old have the iPad every day after preschool 😬 so I’m not sure how these suggestions will go down… wish me luck.

Im off to try to make a plan for today, it’s pouring all day here… feeding the ducks in the rain I think!

@Trixiefirecracker yes I have seen these before. I’m a bit sceptical because AFAIK there’s no direct evidence that screens are damaging for under 2s, just an absence of relevant evidence at all. But nevertheless I’m trying to cut them down because of all the reasons I outlined before. I think I would be comfortable with half an hour a day of something slow and gentle ie not YouTube.

If you and your husband are both outdoorsy then that should rub off on your children. You are in charge, lay down some rules about iPads, screen time etc. At such a young age, water and sand will keep them entertained outside for hours. My four year old son played with his ELC teapot set pouring water for hours on end!

OP - I just wanted to say I think you sound like a fantastic, thoughtful Mum & the way you’ve been so open to people’s suggestions (& let some of the more snipey/ judgemental comments slide off you) is a model of how it’s Mumsnet should be done!

I think you’re right to be very sceptical about some of the “all screens bad” scaremongering on here as there really, really isn’t enough scientific evidence to back that up.

The most conclusive evidence is what’s bad about screens is how sedentary they encourage children to be, so, as long as you’re countering that with physical activity, you don’t need to worry about an amount of screen time (as long as it’s an amount YOU feel comfortable with)

There is plenty of evidence that outdoor time & “unstructured time” (when kids have space to use their own resources & imaginations) is good though, so def make space for that where you can. I think the 5 Minute Mum books are great for simple ideas for activities you can set up for your kids and leave them to discover (indoor& out)

And personally, I’m a very, very strong believer that a happy, relaxed parent gives kids a happier childhood, so find the balance that works for you.

One more thought - if you’re looking to improve your outdoor space, all 3 of my kids (now 4, 9 and 11) have really loved our mud kitchen as it’s very open ended & they’ve used it for lots of different types of play.

Great update OP! This thread has lots of ideas and I'm glad some are useful.

Honestly I found it really empowering making the conscious choice to say "this is what our deliberate boundaries are". It made it much easier to calmly hold them rather than parenting from fear (eg what some people do is giving a tablet out of fear the house won't be guest ready and they feel pressure to have the house a certain way, but then letting DC have one more video out of fear that they'll have a tantrum).

If a friend wants to judge me for having a rack of laundry out and some mugs in the sink then they can sod off. I'd rather sit with my DC than prioritise a spotless kitchen. 😂

If you're interested in the research, there's a lot of not all screen time being the same. Some children's TV is educational, interesting but not overstimulating, and other content (especially online and app content) is designed for adults and children to have low effort dopamine boosts. The latter is designed to keep people scrolling and hooked on the device.

Like PP, we like our mud kitchen outside and DC also enjoyed growing their own things in pots when they were younger. Strawberries and sunflowers are a fun thing to grow and it's minimal effort. It would probably give some Mumsnetters a heart attack but we let ours build dens with old towels and sheets outside.

What worked well for us in the garden was a water play thing. The kids would spend hours playing with that and then start washing toys.
Paddling pool in the summer
Setting up a little garden for animals/dinosaurs/fairies using rocks, twigs and planting seeds.
Putting out a bird feeder and watching all the different birds

You could play her fave songs on Alexa, or any old speaker, so she can listen to them but not be glued to a bright screen. I do that with my toddler and he loves dancing around to his favourite songs while I’m getting everything ready

This really makes sense. All my GC have "Cinema Nights" with their parents where they snuggle up on the sofa with popcorn and treats. Obviously you can't do this all the time but it makes screen time a treat rather than something regular.

Cooking real food with your children is so important, not just for now but for when they're adult. We didn't ban fast food but only had it when there was no alternative if we were out, which sadly is not unusual.
Several others have now also mentioned choosing TV that doesn't have adverts which I believe helped us.
I know that a lot of us don't live in the countryside or even with gardens big enough for dens or trees, but you can have dens inside, blankets over tables and chairs, all ways of doing imaginative play or even just "playing house". They really do need to learn to play by themselves.

I agree with 0021andabit, don't beat yourself up @Coffeecoffeeinmytummy, if you're thinking about it at all you're way ahead of many others.

OP what about the playground? sandpit at home maybe? Mine would often say they don’t want to go then get there and make friends etc. Swimming is another good one, take lots of swim toys for them to share and as it makes them extra hungry afterwards they will be more likely to eat the healthier options you already have? Do you have a easel with blackboard? You could put it outside and just rotate a few different things in the garden for them to make it more interesting. Just a few suggestions but I know they are all so different and these worked with my older two but no way in hell would my youngest who has ASD spend more than 15/20 mins on any one activity.

The most conclusive evidence is what’s bad about screens is how sedentary they encourage children to be, so, as long as you’re countering that with physical activity, you don’t need to worry about an amount of screen time (as long as it’s an amount YOU feel comfortable with)

Yes, exactly this. The WHO guidelines are always quoted but all relate to activity levels, and not that screens are inherently bad. I'm sure there's an argument to be made that not all screen time is equal (e.g. I've never let mine have Cocomelon) but people turning babies away from the TV lest they glance at a screen and are forever ruined is... not necessary.

For me, that means keeping the TV off in office hours whilst not beating myself up if I give up and stick a film on at 3 on an endless Sunday in January.

Echoing PPs about garden - children love to play with mud, water and sticks, so don’t jump to buying lots of things at once.

We’ve deliberately let our garden overgrow - it looks a state compared to the manicured English cottage type gardens of our neighbours, but it’s a dream for children (and wildlife) - big hedges and bushes, tall grass and pretty weeds, murky pond full of frogs etc.

You can create a “pond” in a big above-ground container with some plants and stones, or do a bee hotel, look around your garden center for ideas. 😊

Also there are children sized garden tools and watering cans etc - good fun.

It always makes me laugh when people post about how they’re parent of the year but simultaneously (a) are incredibly rude and (b) show they haven’t read or understood anything the OP has said.

Because all the best parents are rude and don’t listen.

There’s loads of research based evidence, maybe more so for slightly older children but also for under twos. A quick google will tell you that the negative effects of screentime can be anything from impact on health/sleep/obesity levels/ self esteem/anxiety/mental health issues etc. as well as links to problems reading social cues and social development. So it’s definitely out there, whether you choose to ignore it or not is another matter.

National trust places are fab but it’s all about balance - indoors / outdoors - all learning - don’t beat yourself up - we all do our best !

I disagree, broadly. There's vast difference between TikTok, Instagram, YouTube and early access to smart phones, and a toddler watching a bit too much Bluey. There isn't any particularly compelling evidence that traditional TV viewing is bad for children, per se, beyond the impact on activity levels.

Most of it comes down to choices you have made or are still to make. You can choose to limit screen time, you can choose to spend more time doing hands on parenting, doing crafts etc. rather than saying how "tired" you are.

(and other comments along these lines) - people saying this, is it really that simple for most people?

I don't mean can you decide and it just magically happens without putting in any effort. Obviously it isn't THAT simple. But I mean, for most people, if you want to make a change, is it generally possible for you to do that with a bit of effort and planning, in most areas, perhaps with the exception of 1/2 "blind spots" (everyone has something they struggle with, whether it's weight or tidiness or screen time or spending or whatever)

Because every time I see a thread where someone is posting about a blind spot that they can't make progress on, that's how I feel about all change ever, it's really difficult, often feeling impossible. Sometimes I can make small bits of progress but they always get undone and I fall back into previous bad habits. I assume this is related to my ADHD, but it would be interesting to get a baseline comparison to take to my medication appointment.

Or - are people saying this kind of comment because it's something that comes easily to them in the first place? For example, I've never felt any draw to use TV with a baby under a year or so old, and I don't really understand when people say oh I've got into this really bad TV habit with my 4mo, how do I break it? And I don't struggle with my weight because I don't really like eating a lot of food, and although I used to smoke, I never seemed to get addicted to/cravings for nicotine, so it would be easy (but stupid) of me to say something like "Just don't put the TV on for your baby! Let them roll around on the floor or talk to them instead." "Just don't eat such big portions! It's totally within your control!" "Just don't buy any more cigarettes. It's that easy!" Those things were GENUINELY easy to me, requiring absolutely no effort. I didn't have to talk myself out of buying cigarettes, I just one day decided I didn't want them any more. I don't think about calories etc, I just eat whatever I want. I don't have to do anything special to occupy small babies without TV, they just seeemed to be occupied fine without it.

It seems for me there is either: Easy decision that doesn't even really need to be actively made, just never do it in the first place/stop one day when I don't like it any more.

Or impossible gigantic effort required, can rarely make lasting progress, can do all the prep/plans/set myself up for success but revert to old habits at the slightest bump in the road, feel defeated, feel hopeless.

Is there a middle ground for some/most people where you do have to try hard but it is achievable? (Again, not asking to be snarky but because it would be genuinely useful to me in clarifying my goals for treatment).

BertieBotts
I wonder how much of it depends on how much agency someone thinks they have and what others around them are doing.

For example, if you're surrounded by people who sit their toddlers in front of screens and say it's the only way to get some peace/only way to get anything done, you're probably more likely to introduce screens young, internalise the idea that it's inevitable, and assume that those parents who choose otherwise either have medically well behaved children or an ideal life.

If you're surrounded by people who believe they have agency as parents to deliberately choose what they do and prioritise as a parent, you're probably going to feel more empowered to make deliberate choices (whatever boundaries you choose) and are more likely to feel you can make steps to implement what you want.

Sometimes there's slow progress or a need to adapt and manage expectations in the short term, but the payoff in the long term was (for us anyway) worth it.

You can't keep them off screens these days but you can limit it. Encourage painting and model making and den building etc. A bit of TV while you do chores is fine - but it shouldn't be all day.

Why are your DC so excited about McDonalds? You must go there a lot! My DC are teenagers and DS in particular does think McDs is great - but we have only ever taken them as a family perhaps ten times in their lives? And probably never before the age of 7 or 8.

We do get takeaways from time to time but this modern day habit of doing it several times a week is crazy - not to mention expensive. I know some people don't have time to cook from scratch but there are always ready meals.

You're right to be thinking about all this now - you have plenty of time to change your habits and bring your DCs up the way you (rightly) feel you should. Don't beat yourself up when they are on their screens - but please do ensure they have other options too. A giant cardboard box can be a space rocket at that age - or you can buy indoor pop up tents. Have fun.....