Why are gender roles viewed negatively?

[reddragon7]

I read and see so many threads and real life examples, where men and women feel the need to be “equal.” The man about to become a father, refuses to become the main earner, even when he has the means, and insists that his wife also work and contribute financially. Doesn’t this seem imbalanced to anyone, and that society is being brainwashed to accept this as the norm.

I have nothing against a woman wishing to work post-children, however, I don’t understand why society and some men put pressure on their wives to work, if she would rather stay home with the children. This has now become and expectation. If a woman is contributing financially, it is never really 50/50, as she is also doing most of the domestic work.

People condemn gender roles as though they are ancient, but seem to forget that, biologically and psychologically, women are naturally better caregivers to children. They are the ones pregnant, produce all these hormones, and better equipped to raise a child than a man. Of course, there are exceptions, but as a general fact, people seem to ignore this.

In view of all this, I believe more men should offer to be financial providers, giving women the option to not work after children, as childcare costs aren’t exactly saving them much anyway. Otherwise, it feels we are moving away from our gender roles, which may actually be more helpful in a marriage, than people make out.

Most ‘gender roles’ are bullshit made up by men - like women should be pretty, enjoy caring roles, men don’t cry and can’t empathise etc. And they are a problem as they put both men and women in restrictive, unrealistic boxes that limit their potential and joy. And obviously women lose out more being physically weaker and ultimately subordinated by men!

However. I do agree to a point, that sex roles of birthing babies, breastfeeding etc, are associated with the tendency to provide emotional care and nurture, and generally woman are better at this. Mothers are most often the child’s primary attachment figure and while dads are also important attachment figures, they are not as often the main figure. This is biology as well as circumstances. But a large part of the construction of women as carers is socially created and instilled from birth - research shows we handle and interact with each sex baby differently etc and so the roles are perpetuated.

Ummmm hello? Is that you 1955??

Seriously though. I also don't know where to start....

Some women like to work and earn money.

Some women like to face the challenge of having a career.

Some Men want to be at home raising their children.

Some women earn more than their partner.

Some men want time out to do something different.

The list goes on and on.

I'm in an industry where shared parental leave/longer term paid paternity leave has begun to be more commonplace.

It's making slow inroads into changing traditional roles, and I'm very glad.

Is it hard for you to grasp that women want to do something with their life beyond being a carer for kids, husband and elderly parents?

Most of us want to use our brains and choose to work and have a career.

Some women even choose not to have kids and/or not to get married, believe it or not...

It is not the 1950s anymore.

Your ''gender roles'' are just a pile of sexist crap as far as I am concerned.

My toes curled reading this, i,assumed you were very elderly bloke and from a different era. I went back to work as I wished to. I am “equal” to my husband, and he did half the child care and was perfectly capable.

such sexist stereotypes.

I don't even know where to start.

My husband and I both agree that we wouldn't want the other to be a SAHP because we wouldn't want the financial burden on our shoulders alone because we're a team and it doesn't feel fair to the working person. We also believe it sets a good example that our child, a boy, will see us both working and see first hand that mothers can have successful careers and fathers can do their fair share of parenting and housework.

I could be a SAHM because of my husband's wages but I actually went back to work full time when our son was 12 weeks. That was long enough for me, it was boring.

Gender roles are restrictive, they are damaging and I can't see them as anything but negative because there's nothing positive at all about sexism.

Suspect it’s your attitude that society looks down on to be fair.

I think many people are misunderstanding me. I am not saying a woman shouldn’t work or have her own career/life outside of her family. I myself am a professional working woman, aged 29 (not an elderly bloke as someone suggested 😂)

I would always advisable a woman to be educated and have her own passion/hobbies to stimulate herself. I just mean to say, I don’t think there should an an expectation from mine or cosier women

typos and unfinished post.

I just don’t think there should be an expectation for women, from both men and society, to work and contribute financially AS WELL AS being a mother. Simply because most of the time, more of the childcare and domestic work falls on women. They should have the CHOICE, they should be allowed to be a full time mum if they wish.

Of course the exceptions apply, like redundancy, illness, etc - but I meant as a general stance. Why don’t men want to take on their roles as providers anymore, giving women the option.

Not all men have the means to support their wives to be stay at home mothers. And not all mothers take on the lions share of the parenting/housework. I would have loved to be able to afford to take several years off work and focus solely only my children but it just wasn't in our budget. We share childcare responsibilities and house work. We pool our money together for bills and have an equal allowance for personal spending, regardless of who earns more. Modern relationships are about teamwork. Stick your 1950s ideology up your arse.

@reddragon7 because women aren't entitled to be SAHM's, not to mention the fact that men deserve to have a choice too. They may not want the stress of carrying a family financially alone or they may want to be the one who stays at home.

I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation that a grown woman works unless it's something that needs to be agreed upon by both man and woman, not just demanded by the woman.

My father did the vast majority of child rearing. mother went back to work 2 weeks after I was born (they couldn’t afford for her not to). She worked nights and my dad worked days.

She studied when my younger sibling arrived and then started a very fast climb up her chosen career ladder. Dad was happy with where he had gotten and became the default parent.

So when I had DD, and DH had to work away for the first 18 months of her life, I did the bulk of care for her. I still worked, just self employed and around her. There were a lot of late nights. Once DH was back everything was split. Now it’s me with the job that takes me away 2-3 days a week. He is the default parent now. We earn pretty much the same. My my pension is worth about 10 times his.

Beyond the age of 2 I don’t believe there is a benefit in mum rather than dad being there. And that’s only if there is extended breastfeeding going on.

This sexist connotation that men aren’t good care givers affects the whole of society and impacts on female opportunities at work.

Hmmmm. My nephew’s mum drank heavily during pregnancy. Baby survived but it became clear that he had fetal alcohol syndrome. A lifetime of extra support, painful surgeries and disadvantage guaranteed. She left before he turned 1. BIL does everything for that dear little boy. How dare you suggest he isn’t as caring as nephew’s mother would have been.

Just to be clear. If you have a family /parenting arrangement that works for you, that’s absolutely fine. I genuinely just wanted opinions as to why gender roles are not favoured anymore. Weighing everything up, it doesn’t seem like a very “equal” society to me. I believe men and women have equal value, but nothing wrong with accepting that we may benefit from different roles.

Jeez, I am not at all suggesting this. Hence, why I said “most.” Clearly, not always. I even said men can be too. I was talking generically. Of course, some women can also be terrible mothers, and men, fantastic fathers. I’m sorry to hear about your nephew. I’m glad to know he has an wonderful father, and in no way, am I trying to undermine this. This is not a personal attack. Rather, I wanted an open and honest discussion.

But as stated upthread men being a breadwinner affects men adversely both physically and in terms of their happiness. the higher their wage compared to their partners the more it affects them

Where as women are less happy if they earn less and happier if they earn more

So your traditional roles make both the women and men unhappier and have an impact on the man's health according to research. How exactly is that a benefit?

Since when has this been proved scientifically with wider peer-reviewed research? May be there are some instances parallel to what you suggest, but I do not think this is a majority.

It may be beneficial to those who fit into those perfect, neat stereotype boxes but what about those that don't?

Having a career as a woman is more difficult than a man in the same role due to those stereotypes, the pressure to 'provide' for some men is stressful and that's just the tip of the iceburg.

Gender roles hurt society.

It's a study by the university of conneticut based on 15 years of research and data

Although I am still waiting on the peer reviewed research that backed up your claim that women are naturally better caregivers

Apparently what you believe is fact and what you don't believe is not a fact so there is little point discussing this with you further.

Gender roles hurt society

Yes, this.

I would love my dd to live in a society where gender roles are truly consigned to history, where they belong.

Those stupid old stereotypes made my mother's life a misery and my own life has been harder because of them. I want my dd to be completely from this nonsense.

I also find it irritating when people bleat on about tradional gender roles and ignore the fact that

A. those roles were only traditional for those that could afford it, for most of history most women have worked

B. in the era of the 'housewife' the 1950s to the 1970s it was fairly common for housewives to be on anything from amphetamines to antidepressants. Sure that sounds like an attractive option.

So sure if you are depended from rich families maybe your ancestors did have 'traditional gender roles' but if your ancestors were working class then the women were highly likely to be working children or no children

Why are men not paying for their partners to stay at home and raise the kids?

Because firstly, we wanted equality, and that means, you know, being equal.

Secondly, looking after kids isn't that difficult, being blunt, a moronic idiot could look after a baby, for the first 8 months they don't do anything, the rest is just mind numbing repetitive drudgery. Mumsnet, and modern society, like to portray a child as being some sort of divine entity, which requires super-human levels of Intellect and talent to raise properly. We all know that's a load of bollocks.

Considering how badly the average man is treated by their partners today, I'm surprised any of them want to actually have kids in the first place.

I feel like you’re going at this backwards. Women end up doing more housework and childcare, therefore they shouldn’t be expected to work, reinforcing gender roles. When actually the better solution would be to dismantle gender roles and encourage men to contribute equally to housework and child rearing. Having a vagina doesn’t actually make me any better at scrubbing floors or wiping bums, it’s all learnt and men can learn too.

I don’t see the problem with women being the primary caregiver, as they do normally end up bonding the most with children in early years. And this is healthy for the children too.

I certainly think it’s good to encourage men to do more domestic chores and help out, but I do feel being pregnant and raising kids - women should therefore, be entitled to choose to stay at home, and not have any financial burden tbh. Unless circumstances call for it, like I mentioned, redundancy in husband, illness, lack of affordability.

Going that you are genuine, what actual concrete proof do you have that it is actually the case

That men work and 'provide' for the family and women are just there to have babies and care for them? type thing

Where is the evidence that it actually should be this way?